By Stan Albert 

Some years ago, probably around 1998, Barry Lebow approached me to do an interview for REM regarding my longevity as a real estate manager. Barry and I have known each other since around 1979 when Century 21 first came to Ontario.  Our paths crossed again nearly 20 years later at my former office at Humbertown in Etobicoke. Barry asked me if I’d be interested in being interviewed for a future column in the magazine. 

And so a friendship rekindled itself through the auspices of this great vehicle called REM!

Now it’s time for me to turn the tables and interview Barry. He has made some significant contributions to the real estate industry and has some great insights into the future. 

Stan Albert: So, Barry, what made you decide to enter the real estate business? 

Barry Lebow: I had nowhere to go Stan. I was a Grade 10 dropout. I had the attention span of a gnat and school just bored me. I had been hustling since I was 12 with two morning paper routes in my hometown of Guelph. At 14 I ran a crew of younger kids going door-to-door selling magazines after school, and paid a 16-year-old to drive us around. I loved the action, the selling, the hustle, the money. It was exciting and school was not.

This article is too short to go through the years between 17 and 21 but I did various things and ended up in the wholesale side of ladies’ wear on Spadina Avenue and was on the road as a traveller by 19. It was 1967, Israel went to war (The Six Day War) and I was moved because it seemed Israel was doomed. So I left, went to Israel and spent a year in the Tank Corps. I also married my corporal. When we came back to Canada I had a wife, no job, no skills, no education. My father suggested that I see his friend, Murray Warsh, where I started. One-week course, got my license and sold 100 houses my first year at the age of 21 and never looked back. I was hooked. 

Albert: You were in the home speculating/renovating business for a lot of your career. What was that like? What lessons could you pass on? 

Lebow:  We had a firm, WFE Investments and man, we were big. We were mortgage brokers but I was more into buying, fixing and reselling. By the time I left we had bought and sold over 350 homes in Toronto and I went on by myself to do another 250 or so. We also built new homes in Ontario in partnerships, probably about 400 in total.

My best renovation was a beautiful home I restored in Cabbagetown and sold to a young Peter Mansbridge. I was a millionaire at 26 and then owed over $1 million at 27. In April  1974 the Ontario government caught the real estate industry by surprise with the Land Speculation Tax. I owned and was to close on 53 houses. I and many others got caught. I worked like a dog for the next years to clean up my mess, pay off the debts and stop the bleeding. I also launched my own real estate brokerage to deal with my houses and got it up to about 33 agents. Some days I did not know if I would have even pocket money for milk for my kids. It was real tough.

 Did I learn? Well I learned that I was a terrible real estate manager and hated it. Hated trying to motivate unmotivated salespeople and by 1979 went back to buying and renovating and guess what? The market crashed in 1981 and I was caught again. Lost a lot and I had to make a living. Fell into appraisal to put food on my family’s table and eventually I built it into one of the most successful commercial and residential boutique appraisal firms in Canada. It continues to thrive but without me at the helm today.

Buying and renovating, though, is in my blood. I always joke that my autobiography will be titled, Jew With Tools. I love to have a hammer in my hand and power tools, they are a rush. My last renovation was just two years ago and I would continue on but frankly, who can buy and speculate in this crazy Toronto market? 

Albert: Who was your mentor at that time? 

Lebow: Please let me add this about mentoring. No schooling, no education can take away what one can learn from someone who has the scars, has fought the battles and been there long before you. I had many mentors because so many were so good to me, you included, Stan. Some were past-presidents of the Toronto Real Estate Board who took me under their wing. Overall, in reflection, despite me taking training from some of the best of the best real estate trainers, the big names, no one came close to the master salesman, my late father, Sid Lebow. I appreciated him more in reflection. 

Albert: You have more designations after your name than a five-star general! What made you so determined as a student of our industry? 

Lebow:  I guess I have earned about 20 professional designations in real estate and retain about 14 today. I did not go out to accumulate them. A love affair developed. Jim Mizzoni, a good friend, a mentor and past president of TREB was heading off to university at nights to earn his FRI designation and challenged me to join him. I never thought I would get in but York University accepted me as a mature student. I earned my FRI with Jim and I loved the experience, the learning. The kid who hated high school could not get enough education. I became a course junkie and continue to study this great industry. I will go across North America to learn and to get new skills. One must.

From a Grade 10 drop out I think the highlight of allowing myself to be immersed in real estate education was when I was asked to lecture at Osgoode Hall. As I stood there on stage, I wondered to myself, how many Grade 10 drop outs have had the opportunity to lecture to lawyers in these halls? Real estate has been good to me. 

Albert: You have travelled throughout the  United States and Canada doing appraisals of all sorts. Which one was the toughest to do and why? 

Lebow:  I have thought this out. I did ski mountains, trophy buildings such as Toronto’s iconic Flat Iron Building, the LCBO building at Summerhill, properties from Halifax to Vancouver and down into Texas and Florida….The hardest, the most difficult is a custom house, especially in areas such as the Bridle Path in Toronto. How can anyone put a tag of say $10 million on a house? They are more difficult assignments than the largest commercial structures, which are truthfully not that difficult. 

Albert: Our paths have crisscrossed so many times over the past four decades. We have both learned a great deal about this business. What comes to mind as being the most significant change or changes? 

Lebow: For the most part, the Realtor community has changed to their determent while the public has changed to their betterment. Along the years the brokers lost control of their staff. No more mandatory meetings, mandatory office hours. Agents can come and go as they please. Many never take any training, never had a moment’s mentoring nor follow the basics. They work from home and in a vacuum.

The National Association of Realtors says that within three years, 87 per cent of agents leave. That is not a profession, that is an industry out of control. Brokerages have become desk landlords. We see in major centres that five per cent of Realtors control their markets. That means that 95 per cent get the leftovers.

Sorry, but most Realtors do not understand the basics of selling, of human nature, negotiation, how to generate continuous business and do not grasp their costs. As an educator, I can state that a good percentage do not know the rules and theories of the industry. They are doomed to fail.

The public has options that were not present when I started. Stan, I had many buyers back in the day who could not read the contracts or sign their names. Today buyers go online, they have almost as much information as their Realtor and they understand the process. Buyers and sellers still make the same mistakes in not trusting good professionals and some are just cheap and won’t pay commissions. Loyalties today are not that important either.

The mere posting brokerage and discounters, there are more and more, but overall, they are not the threat to the industry. The lack of skills of the agents worries me more and I say that as a busy instructor of real estate practice. I teach various credit courses that I developed in Ontario to Realtors that I developed and when I ask questions of the students, I get the same answers. When I teach the Accredited Senior Agent course, I get different answers because agents who seek higher education and a designation, be it ASA or FRI or whatever, are already more dedicated. 

Albert:  Do you feel that with the advent of mere postings, our industry as a whole is in any jeopardy? 

Lebow: I put it to you, how many discounters, posters or whatever have we observed since we started and where are they today? Will they make a dent? Of course, but they cannot give service. That is where they will hit a wall. Look, we have an incredible market but all markets stop. Let the market growth stagnate, let listings linger on the market and good Realtors will be the only way to market. These interlopers thrive in good times. They cannot sustain a correction in the economy. 

Albert: After much “nudging” as you state in the opening page of your much acclaimed  Accredited Senior Agent’s Course (approved for 11 CEUs in Ontario and three in Nova Scotia) you’ve achieved a great deal in getting the message across to Canadians about the value and benefit of working with seniors. You have recently made changes in your role. 

Lebow: As you know, I founded the Accredited Senior Agent designation, which has grown since the launch four years ago to having over 1,000 members in three provinces, soon to be four as we head into Alberta. It took a lot of work and dedication but my intention was never to  run it, only to create and start it. I am not an administrator. Some months ago I resigned. Chris Newell is now president and I remain as an advisor, a promoter and with a financial interest. A new advisory board will be in place soon and Chris is taking it to the next level with new programs. I created it for one reason, to leave something that would remain after I am gone. Maybe a case of ego but overall a legacy that my family can be proud of. It means a lot to me. I love the program, the interaction with the members and the future. Chris has great plans but better yet, he is making them happen. 

Albert: So, you no longer control your appraisal firm, or the Accredited Senior Agent program. What new challenges are you looking forward to? 

Lebow: Two years ago I made the decision to leave the appraisal divisions in the capable hands of my associates. I sold them the business but retained an interest and advisory role. I make my livelihood in what fascinates me, real estate stigma, and also in agency. To date I have testified in more than 500 trials across Canada as an expert witness. Sometimes agents are being sued and I take on the case based on merit. If the agent is innocent I will write my report to defend their position but unfortunately I get too many cases where the agents are far from innocent.

Stigma is just so interesting to me. It started with my first urea formaldehyde foam insulation case in 1981, which led me to do over 1,000 UFFI homes over the following decade. That grew into more stigma – murder, contamination.

Today, there are many former grow ops that were sold to buyers and without the agents declaring the fact. We know in some cases that the agents knew, they chose not to disclose. I have just finished one year of research for a village in Ontario that has been contaminated with fuel for decades. The question to me is if there is any market value to the local homes. That is a class action and will be interesting to observe as it gets into the courts.

So, I teach my courses, deal with litigation matters, advise to the appraisal and the ASA program and I am working on a new real estate concept that I am excited about but am keeping close to my chest. I retain my broker’s license and am a Realtor. There are some commercial deals to be done. By the time this article is published I will have turned 65 and I am excited about the future and the next stage of my career. Also, I intend to never stop learning and by the way, I got my first office computer in 1977, had a full-time computer operator to do my office network by 1980 and I consider myself pretty social media savvy. I do keep up and then some.

Albert:  You mentioned recently on LinkedIn that you felt that an ethics course should be made mandatory for all OREA agents. Is there such a course anywhere in Canada or the USA? And why do you feel that way?

Lebow: I am not aware of a good ethics course but there are courses offered. In my role as an expert witness I just cannot believe the stupidity or greed of agents. I have told lawyers more than once that the agent suffered from a severe case of commissionitis. It’s a bad disease that clouds good rational thought. We need ethics to be instilled to the degree that there is no thinking. The right thing should always prevail.

Albert: If we could wrap up this interview, what would you like to see happen in the next decade?

Lebow: Read the latest issue of Fast Company and about Generation Next. The future will be about instant change. We have no concept of what is to come as many of the things that we will take for granted are not invented yet. I am strong believer that brokerage will change. It is too much about a win for the brokerage and not for the consumer. We must start to see more and more fee-for-service and agents getting paid and not abused for their services. It should not be all about making a deal as the only way to get paid. An agent with the second- or third-best offer has worked as hard as the winner. To sellers: you want a brochure, sure, here is my cost. You want a CMA? Here is my fee. What services do you want? Here is my rate schedule. Lawyers and accountants know how to charge as professionals. We don’t rewrite the rules, we just adapt to what true professions know, we do the work and we get paid.

Thanks Stan. The next 44 years are going to be fun.

Stan Albert, broker/manager, ABR, ASA at Re/Max Premier in Vaughan, Ont. can be reached for consultation at stanalb@rogers.com. Stan is now celebrating 40 years as an active real estate professional.

See Barry Lebow’s archived REM columns here.