The new OREA wellness program, from my viewpoint, is a fabulous and beneficial program that is going to be implemented soon for Ontario realtors. Keep in mind this is my opinion, and although many are opposed, many are still in favour.
You see, I haven’t been covered by benefits in over 17 years. That’s 17 years of having to pay for everything at full price. That’s travel insurance, life insurance, dental, vision and more, which I haven’t had since before 2010. I’ve even been declined for certain programs that I have tried to apply for because of a rare blood disorder that most insurance companies don’t cover because it scares them and they know nothing about; and if I was able to get it, the amount I would have had to pay would have been an extreme amount; more than medications, etc., per year.
With the ORWP, there are no medical tests or questionnaires required to participate. That in itself is beyond incredible for me.
I’ve talked to many others that are covered by spouses, etc. or on other family plans, but I haven’t had that opportunity. Both my fiance and I are self-employed, which is hard to support a family of 5 and the cost of living plus an added astronomical amount towards benefits & coverage. Finally, an answer we have been looking for.
Never mind the added bonus of dental and eye care for a small added fee. Both of which I require as an individual.
I’ve heard talk of how some think it’s not fair for this program to be mandatory or how realtors shouldn’t be involved with organized real estate and not be members of OREA. But why? Why would you then do a disservice to your clients and not want to have access to the MLS system or be covered by errors or omissions? I know some people are incredibly set off by the lack of an opt-out option and the mandatory amount we must pay.
OREA says, “The premium for the Standard Plan will be $659.88 annually per Member and will form part of the OREA dues, bringing the total annual OREA dues to $769.88. For less than $2 a day, 96,000 Members across this province will have the peace of mind of a safety net.”
$2 a day, that’s it? To have backing from an insurance company, to have safety and a little reassurance when travelling or getting new glasses. That’s the same price as a large coffee from Tim Hortons.
We were all sent the same emails asking for our input regarding what we thought and what we, as TRREB members, were looking for.. stability!
Why is it a problem now? Because OREA or TRREB didn’t specifically ask whether you would want this if it was mandatory. Or because your voice wasn’t heard?
I voted for our representation for TRREB, and I have attended OREA AGMs in the past. I am involved with knowing and learning more about our industry, and I also watch the virtual meetings online. I got involved and understood what is happening through different task forces within our industry, so I feel I have the right to speak out about this topic.
Have you? Have you gotten involved? Read all our emails? Know what’s happening within your own board? If the answer is no, then let me be blunt. I don’t feel that there is an option for you to blame others or get angry over a mandatory benefits program. Do you want a change? Then get involved!
I’m seriously excited for the program to start in January. I encourage everyone that’s not as excited to look at it from another point of view.
Erin Corcoran
Sales representative
Re/Max Prime Properties
Thank you, Erin, for sharing your opinion. This program benefits so many and it’s nice to see some positive opinions!
Once everyone pays into this Insurance and try to make a claim, is that when we will find out what the the following means : this is subject to eligibility provisions, This is a line taken out of the email the President of Orea sent out Yesterday. I think people are all dreaming if you think everything is going to be covered. What are the Eligibility Provisions for the life policy or Critical illness?
I have the feeling that having a pre-exiting condition will automatically deny coverage in case of a claim.
The writer doesn’t seem to understand the $2 a day limitations of this mandatory plan. For many of us on the other end of the age spectrum (over 65) this mandatory plan is of no value to us as we took responsibility for our own personal life, health etc coverages over the years and to date as we are self-employed/independent contractors. The writer, Orea, local board voting delegates at the June 20th special meeting fail to recognize this and have no issue to terminate us if we don’t pay up to support those members who fail to take responsibility for their own personal life decisions.
It does not benefit me, so why should I ha e to pay for it? Why should I be mandated to pay for a policy because others doesn’t have one? Sounding like something else we just spent 3 years going thru for no good reason!
Congratulations Erin if you are excited about a plan that the rest of us will subsidize for you until we turn 70. Perhaps you should be proactive and contact ANY insurance/benefits provider to compare the costs vs benefits. You understand right that your “$2/day will be $20/day when you need to add dentals and vision. Perhaps you should come over and listens to our side of the story. DONT WANT IT DONT NEED IT. MAKE IT OPTIONAL
For all who want this plan, I have no problem..you can have it. However, if you do just a little homework you will find this plan really offers nothing beneficial! NO Dental, NO Vision minimal prescriptions. Oh, and DON’T live past the age of 65…you keep paying and get even less. If you want insurance, do like the rest of us do and GET YOUR OWN! Why and I forced to pay for your lack of responsibility to your own health!
have you seen what the added cost is if you want to add in dental or vision care. your glasses are not covered for $2/day at this point. I haven’t seen a break down of other opt-in options
I can’t even believe how much this sounds like an OREA generated article. I’m not joking, the similarities to the canned responses are uncanny (no pun intended). Unless they’re both using ChatGPT. 🤦♀️
OREA is presenting this to the public as being “under $2/day” but not once has the public conversation mentioned their threat to our livelihood; to comply or lose access to the systems needed to effectively trade in real estate. Why aren’t they telling the public that this plan has minimal coverage that?
I understand your excitement, because at first I was excited too.
Until it hit me how much I need to spend out of pocket to get the paltry amount back. I have ONE medication that will eat up my entire benefit, for a one months supply.
This plan won’t help your family like you’ve been lead to believe. Do your own homework.
Top tier plan will cost over 2800/year.
Erin, I respect your opinion however…..it does NOT include dental and vision as you mentioned and will not cover those with pre-existing conditions which is stated. Of course not to forget all those over 65, myself included, who will not benefit the same but pay the same. It truly is not about the money as that’s insignificant but about being forced to pay for something no one needs to carry on our business. There are some here who need benefits desperately but are already dealing with expenses to cover their medical expense and now will have to pay an additional $660 and not get the coverage they need. That is a sad situation to be forced into. My opinion only but I respectfully disagree with you.
I’m so happy for you Erin! I’m glad you are excited. I don’t want to burst you bubble but for $2 a day you will not get vision or dental. It will cost a bit more than a Tim Hortons coffee to get that kind of a plan.
To save $250 on vision you will have to upgrade to an Enhanced plan for $1,468 a year. This plan will also give you 50% off dental.
If you want $500 off on vision and 80% on basic dental, you need to upgrade to Super Elite plan for $2,804 a year. Not worth the upgrade, because you will spend less on vision & dental combined, if you just buy out of pocket.
Also, do check whether your rare blood condition will be considered as one of the exempt pre-conditions. Not all info is available at this time, but it is possible that you will not qualify for critical illness or for out of country coverage.
So, with all do respect, do your homework before preaching to us about reading all the emails and information on OREA website, or about getting involved.
Many people have other health plans in place and should be able to OPT-OUT from the ORWP. With the leverage of 96,000 members, OREA should be able to use their negotiating skills and let few thousand people out of the plan, even if it takes a couple of extra months to wrinkle out. It is a simple and reasonable ask. At the end of the day, the powers that be, could sleep at night knowing that everyone is still covered.
Excellent points, Liz. Those things all went through my head too as I read this letter!
I don’t think I will understand when people brag about not ever having had insurance. It’s their choice to get a plan or not. CHOICE. Now there is no choice. With all the pre-existing conditions that are in the plan even many people under 65 will not get much out of this plan. No medica required but your condition allows us to deny your claim. The fine print is mind boggling. What about the people who will LOSE their current plan as of 1.1.2024 ? Anybody cares about them ? I could go on and on but most things will be repetitive.
Good for you, glad you want it, but stop the gaslighting!
The opposition is not against the plan, it is about the totalitarian decision mandating everyone participate or lose their access to service’s detrimental to their livelihood controlled by a monopoly.
That’s the point not addressed in your apology for this plan.
Why didn’t you?
I’m sorry to be blunt, Erin.
You and your fiancé chose to be self-employed aka looking after yourself instead asking other people to subsidize your life.
You and your fiancé chose to have 3 kids instead of contraception.
If $2/day is nothing, why don’t you personally pay for the $2/day for 11,000+ people who had signed the petition against mandatory nature of ORWP???
You wouldn’t now that we are asking you to subsidize other people, would you?
Read the email from this week. It explains that you won’t lose your current plan and thus is in addition to existing plans. There’s a lot of misleading information being floated in order to keep people from realizing the true facts about the ORWP. TRREB members are upset their $10,000 life insurance is being replaced by $100,000 or $50,000? That they paid into? Haha. You mean the mandatory insurance they paid in to? Interesting. They’re mad that they’re losing mandatory insurance OR mad that they have to pay into mandatory insurance? Like I said …. Everyone doesn’t need to like it. That’s the same with everything in life. And life continues.
That’s your excuse for this seriously?
A $100 life insurance plan that’s been increased 600% to pay for inadequate insurance that seniors are saying is not doing anything for them?
You are serious too.
OREA is trying to sell a reduced cost to call by explaining that the cost to carry the benefits fir seniors would be too high so instead so instead they and you obviously, decide it is better to make seniors lose benefits so that the non-senior costs are minimized.
How about this then…
They could have pissed off the non-seniors by keeping senior levels static by jacking up the costs across the board to do that but they didn’t!
If you’re so gung ho on thus why are you not pitching that as being more fair?
The bafflegarb coming from directors current and past is becoming more ridiculous with each passing day.
PS as an obvious supporter of this plan, what did you hope to achieve by joining the group opposed to this and lying to get in?
I did notice your entry a few days ago but gave you the benefit of the doubt.
And are you threatening Karl, Asif?
Deceit is not what a director past or present should be exemplifying.
Asif I agree that it could be good for some but what about the families that are gonna lose their good coverage because they have to take this plan and the numbers at their current brokerage will drop below the threshold I’m not asking anyone to subsidize for my family nor am I complaining about $700 because in our household, this plan is going to cost our family up to $100,000 to try and find out how to get my son’s medication covered that he will no longer get as of January 1 so while I agree, we shouldn’t be arguing about $700. It’s bigger than that and unfortunately, with no opt out provision. If you have current benefits, we have no idea what’s going to happen to my son, or the lady in my brokerage who had a transplant and won’t be able to afford her antirejection medication , I am all for giving people access to benefits but when those benefits are going to hurt people, they should be allowed to opt out of it or have an option that is at least equal to what they currently have. And the argument about the two dollars a day will be nothing in two years when each of the four separate plans that OREA negotiated will be re-negotiated, and the rates will most definitely go up. Unfortunately, the higher plans will more then likely go up significantly and this is right from the insurance company Vice president that we’re working with for the benefit. I appreciate that everybody has their own opinion on this, but we all need to look at both sides of this and there Hass to be a better way and better benefits to be negotiated for with 96,000 realtors not including their family members. I’ve also found it a palling to hear both sides of this argument, degrading and bashing each other.
Your current coverage WILL NOT be affected in any way, shape or form.
Where did you get the idea that you will lose your current coverage? That’s entirely incorrect. Your current coverage stays as is. Unchanged.
This additional coverage could cover what your current does not, and/or will increase your caps in certain categories.
This is the kind of gross misinformation Asif is referring to.
You have no details of someone else’ insurance coverage and detailed provision.
What make you confident of how their existing coverage will be affected???
Throwing popular words around didn’t make you sound intelligent at all.
To be blunt Karl: don’t insult Erin like that. I trust I’m clear.
Asif, your clueless comment has nothing to do with my comment.
Your comment is not clear. Your comment is confusing.
I rephrased two facts that Erin confirmed it herself in her letter and ask her to answer a question that will put her own argument to test.
Where did I insult her?
I did not even discuss details of ORWP or TRREB’s benefit. What’s the point of you bringing them up?
Feel free to take sometime to formulate your argument before you speak. You can write it down and revise it before you send it in an email to me, karl.liu@kmret.ca.
Happy to debate with you directly when you have the chance clear your head.
Listen. If you can’t read your own comment to her and figure out where you insulted her, then you’ve got more issues than you know. Don’t worry, you will be reminded of your comments very soon. I see it has been screen shotted and shared a number of times on Social.
I’m not worried at all.
The more it gets shared on social media, the better. More people will see this debate.
I’m glad those who are getting this shoved down their throats can make it cheaper for you, Erin. If the lawyers can’t kill this, just wait till your premiums start going up in a couple of years and you have no choice to exit or even shop it.
REM, congratulations on finding one. I will be unsubscribing.
Erin, maybe you should look at it from the side of folks who have something to lose instead of YOU having something to gain. The plan should have an opt-out option period!
Erin i think it ia great you are ao happy about this insurance. I do know there are a lot of people who feel the way you do. However, don’t be so sure you will be covered.
I do read the information from OREA, and have seen it mentioned that pre-existing conditions may not be covered for some of the benefits. That leaves me out
I am currently covered with 20 cents per prescription, a great dental and eye glasses benefit, as well as travel insurance. This policy doesn’t even come close to that.
This plan does not fit all. It should not be forced on those that have no use for it. That is what so many are against. This should not be mandatory at all.
For those that are happy with it, great. They can pay for whatever the cost may be, without those who do not want it subsidizing it. There are many who this added cost really is a big deal to them. It should be a choice.
I have previously been involved at the Board level for many years. I agree that more people should get involved. My own Board did vote against this and I am grateful to have people representing me who, as they said, have a fiduciary duty to protect their members and voted against because of lack of information
Erin, I’m glad that you are happy about this long awaited plan. I have been a realtor since 1982. I sought out my own plan years ago. I was happy about having one but I never asked anyone to subsidize it so that I could afford it.
I’m not begrudging the fact that there will be a plan for realtors. What I am against is the fact that it’s going to be mandatory. I was never asked for my thoughts on that part.
You are obviously under 65 with dependents. I was once too. If there had been an optional plan available in the “good old days” I would have opted in. And perhaps if it was mandatory I may not have cared as I would have selfishly only thought about my own family. I am now in that over 65 year old category. I will not get anything out of this mandatory plan. But I will help subsidize you for only $2. Geez thanks for being so excited about that!
It’s interesting to read feedback from a Treb member who is in favour of the plan. For me, it illuminates a real issue with the organizational structure. As a non-Treb member I did not have the opportunity to vote for Toronto board members. I am not privy to correspondence, surveys from your board. I did however respond to my board who surveyed members and voted accordingly against the program as a mandatory ‘benefit’. What seems very clear to me now is that one board has full control of a provincial organization. Maybe this should be the headline moving forward. There are other issues that actually impact our work as realtors that should also be reviewed. The fact that it took an issue in which a few individuals are stepping into our personal choices as a nanny state to get the attention of members province-wide might just be the straw to divide the organization. We all lose.
Hello happy Erin. I think you should have a better look at that policy. For $2 a day, it certainly does not cover you and your family.
The issue a lot of us have is not the plan, the amount, or what is covered and what isn’t covered….it is the fact that it is Mandatory and not optional. There are at least 11,000 realtors so far that have voiced their opinion by signing a Petition that they do not want it to be mandatory.
Erin, your perspective, and entreaty for OREA non-voting members to examine its mandatory insurance program from another point of view is noted. Respect for perspectives is important.
Great for you that you have not been covered for 17 years; great because you have not had a catastrophic need or apparently ongoing need for insurance. Paying full price for everything is an interesting perspective.
Maybe you are unfamiliar with how insurance works. Essentially it says to everyone, your risk of need can be covered at less than the actual need cost to you individually, because we get everyone to share the risk. That is what insurance does, it blends the risk. It is like, and I am sure as a professional registrant you would understand, that is like owning one rental unit versus 1000. Get one tenant not paying rent when you own one unit, is devastating, but one out of a 1000 is tolerable.
So in that context, look at the cost from another perspective. It is not $2 per day, but $172,000 per day from our profession.
By the way, you could create your own incorporated company and pay for your medical costs yourself through that corporation and get 100% deductibility, with no fees to an insurance broker, no fees to administration, and so forth. You had avenues available to you these past 17 years, sorry that your accountant and legal advisors did not offer these thoughts to you.
Great there are no tests or questionnaires, as you say. But first it is not known there is not yet. Secondly you do realize that the result of that is everyone pays more for the risk that is not managed but just taken on. For instance, assuming you are 40 years of age, take note there are average ages in the ORE profession that peak well above that age and you would be paying a premium to support older people. If only the 40 year old’s and under were in the plan, your rates for this plan would be even less probably and the under 40’s would be paying for you. But also why is it fair that the registrant who has contributed these many years, and by the way helped to fund the accumulated surpluses at all the ORE organizations, why are they now asked to pay the full freight for the portion of benefits they cannot access or require, …seriously how fair and equitable does one think that is?
Then again, that would be ok for you, because as an older person getting all the plan benefits you would be contributing the greatest risk to plan expenses yet paying the same rate as those who pose almost no risk of significant expense to the insurer.
Well what about the family coverage, perhaps your children and spouse do not need dental or medical care and thus this plan covering you only, no family coverage of any kind, suits the situation. Once again, we can all feel good for your situation as being well addressed by the OREA insurance.
None of those most vocally opposed to OREA’s insurance want to be out from ORE. None. But if they do not want, need, are already covered by better affordable plans, and so forth….they are forced to pay again for coverage unneeded …it is mandated or you are out from OREA and out from CREA and out from your local board or association. Seriously, how does one square that with fairness? And it is not even obvious that an affordable plan for less than all is not possible, indeed early indications from independent sources suggest IT IS possible.
It is not the registrant who is choosing not to be in ORE, it is the plan that forces them out if they prefer not to be forced to pay additional costs. Surely you understand that point.
And you suggest for a small fee 96,000 registrants have peace of mind from a safety net that according to OREA’s survey is already in place for 58,560 of them. That is 61% have indicated they already have a safety net. OREA just seems to think it knows better than those nearly 60,000 registrants as to what is a safety net.
As for involvement, many of the opposed have been active and significant leaders in OREA. They understand the most imperative matter….that if an association is going to impact so significantly, to the tune now of about $64M, its membership it ought to allow or at least seek out in multiple ways, at multiple times and over a period of time exceeding three months, individual input. Indeed, although OREA bylaws provide for vote by local delegates, who are appointed by the local board, where the individual members are three stages removed from having a voice…surely OREA could have sought a one registrant one vote to determine the actual interest among members. The vote might not be the authorized vote in our out the bylaw amendment, it might not be a binding vote per se, but it would be a true vote….for think about it Erin, the survey used to determine the need and interest was from 2019 and only had 1920 response (2% according to OREA).
The group that is opposed to mandatory coverage has about 6% of OREA members involved and about 11% of OREA member numbers petitioning for the mandate requirement to be removed. Surely one ought to see that as substantial evidence of the interest in a non-mandatory program…..which you would be entitled to access to solve your need.
Did you know that CREA has an existing plan you could purchase?
It seems exceedingly unfair to expect your fellow registrants to pay for what is a personal need, and a service that can be obtained freely outside from ORE. This is not like an MLS® data base that whether one uses it once per year or thousands of time in the year, its costs are fairly applied equally across all registrants. This is both unfair and unjust.
One might hope that perspective would be taken into consideration.
Erin, you realize that this mandatory plan does not include dental and vision right ? If you want to add dental and vision, the upcharges are not a “small nominal fee”. The best plan they offer for one individual (family rates have not been published yet as far as I know) is $ 2800. It also doesn’t cover your dependents at two bucks a day. It also doesn’t cover pre-exiting conditions that you (sadly) seem to have. It’s so easy to say “no medical required” and then exclude pre-existing conditions. The mentioning of your involvement on various levels within the industry seems to be questionable since obviously you don’t seem to know that the E+O insurance has absolutely nothing to do with OREA. You may want to check plans from reputable companies for your family. This hodgepodge of 3 insurers (with one of them under some type of investigation) is not the way to go. My “wild guess” is that to include your family of 5 with the upgraded plan will cost you between 8 and 10 thousand dollars. I wish you well.
Orea and the boards need to stay in thier own lanes! They are not insurance providers, they are associations that it’s members, US, pay for to work for us. This is a blatant overreach by all involved. How much commission does the CBS get for brokering the deal? Trreb allow will collect over 47 million in policy dues alone, all upfront while they pay the premiums monthly. How nice for them to be earning all that interest…. Smells like a dead fish is somewhere in the room!
For someone as engaged and as involved in organized real estate as you claim to be Erin, you should know that errors & omissions are through RECO not OREA. Thus, anyone who would leave OREA would still have their Professional Liability Insurance that covers Errors & Omissions.
Kindly stop spreading misinformation!
That is wonderful that Erin is excited. The issue however is that it was made mandatory and that is a problem. Whether it is a good plan or not is certainly debatable. Making this a mandatory requirement in order for us to continue doing business with our mls intact is what is causing thousands of agents to demand an opt in or out option.
OREA is disrespectful of the many dissenting voices of the membership. They are overstepping their mandate and inflicting an unwanted or unneeded expense. There is little value for senior members. Everyone has different needs and financial abilities and that should be respected. OREA just keeps barreling ahead. No respect for the leadership who should take a moment to step back and re-evaluate. As since TREBB has 49% of the vote, it is an unfair representation of the wishes of members. One Vote – One Member.
Erin, as a self employed you have to take care of your own health benefits. If you want someone to pay for you – get a 9-5 job. If you need it get it . Why it’s Mandatory for around 12,000 agents who signed the petition against it?
Offering a benefits package is a good thing. I agree with OREA taking this on.
What I don’t agree with is it being mandatory. I don’t need this, I don’t want this, and I shouldn’t be required to subsidize other agents for their own decisions regarding their healthcare.
Btw if you have a pre-existing condition it will not be covered so sorry to burst your bubble.
If you look at it closely it’s more a wellness program covering massages and those type of wellness benefits.
To each his own and it maybe something you were looking for and could not do it on your own – so good for you but why should everyone else even thought they do not want it have to chip in to make it affordable for you now ??
Just make it optional and see how many do not subscribe to it even those that supposedly do not have any plans !!
Hi Erin
I am very glad that this plan is good for you but remember it’s only covering you for that cost. You have to upgrade to include family. Yes, this plan will be good for many people who’ve never taken care of their medical, dental or life insurance plans as something is better than nothing but the reality is you really don’t have much coverage with this plan. No vision and no dental. I have been in the business, 25+ years and I did take care of my medical dental life insurance etc. I also have preconditions that will not be covered by this new plan and now I’m being forced to buy into a plan that in five years will mean absolutely nothing to me. I have a good plan and now I have to submit to this one first before I can get the money from the second plan and what they are offering doesn’t even come close. I have been on top of this from day one as well. Over the years I have been been very involved in my board. They have not provided us with information. full disclosure and they did not keep us in the loop. They did this behind our backs making sure it was pushed through quickly so we were not properly informed. They now have made it mandatory with 96,000+ members they could’ve easily got a better deal even if they guaranteed 50,000 members in a lower group instead of us who don’t need it subsidizing younger members. I went to all the meetings and our board voted no because the majority of us did not feel we were given enough information to make a valid decision. It’s not about the plan it’s about the mandatory part, nobody who is self-employed should have to pay for something they don’t want or need and to do it under a membership is just wrong so they can increase it anytime they want after the first 2 years!
For those of you that want it great but for those of us that don’t we should have the option to opt out and this should’ve been done from the very beginning.
This plan should have an opt out option. I am sure that with 80% of the 96K Realtors “wanting it” then Orea can still negotiate a good price. Under no circumstances should anyone be made to pay for an insurance plan they don’t want and in some cases may harm them. As independent business people it is our responsibility to take care of our health care and that of our families.
That 80 % number is a statement that has not been substantiated by anybody. It’s a play with numbers. With TRREB having more than 70% of realtors in Ontario that number assumes that everybody in TRREB (and then some) agree with this plan.
Sabine Nasser..Agreed!
I am delighted that you will have access to a group insurance, Erin. I’m all for OREA having a group insurance for members. However, it must be made optional not mandatory.
I am not content providing just short of $700/year to subsidize the cost of insurance for those under 65. I’m certain the increase in their insurance, should this plan be made optional, will not be as great as $700/year that I are being asking me to pay. Sounds like you would be happy to pay a little more which is great!
Unlike E&O insurance, this insurance has NOTHING to do with our trade. For those for whom it has little or no benefit, and/or is detrimental, it is like a tax on belonging to organized real estate. And to add salt to the wound, we must pay or be drummed out of “organized real estate”.
I am over 65, and because I have private insurance coverage that is better than what OREA offers, and, because I will lose all OREA coverage when I retire from OREA, and because getting new coverage when I retire will be cost prohibitive, I, therefore, will be subsidizing those members under 65 by being forced into this mandatory insurance while still keeping my private insurance. Further, I do not need prescription coverage, the Ontario government covers that for those over 65. My private plan covers both dental and glasses. This basic does not. To cancel my current coverage would be insane as I lose the coverage that is of benefit to me and would have no coverage (or very expensive new coverage) when I retire.
This is not a one-size-fits all. This plan must be made optional.
The insurance program may be good for some people.It is not beneficial to me. I Already have great insurance that covers dental, vsion, prescriptions, travel and much more. I do not need to top up. I do not want this and I do not Need it. I should be able to opt out and those that want it can opt in! It is as simple as that! It should not be mandatory!!! I have no need for it and dont want to pay for something that is of no use to me
Only 36% of members surveyed by my Board (OREB) were for the plan….that’s a lot of people not for it. I imagine that the 36% in favor number is fairly representative of all Realtors in Ontario. This decision was not based on what membership wanted.
Wonderful you love this plan however I have a much better plan and don’t need this. Give us the option to opt out!
Dear Erin,
I am truly happy you are finding your peace of mind with this plan. Somehow I think you will be disappointed once you find out they don’t cover pre existing conditions.
Now… I am 52. Full time realtor for 16 years. Paying my own family insurance for 21 years. That’s calls responsibility for one’s life. Recently my husband employer decided to give to his employees ( after 17 years of employment) and fully pays for another coverage. Nothing out of my husband’s pocket. True care, right?
Question to you Erin. Why would I need third coverage?
From OREA I received pretty nice letter saying technically “ you pay or you become a member not in a good standing and loose access to MLS since TREB is a member of OREA” Nice, right?
So, does OREA really care about us when condition on our livelihood placed?
This is the question 12000 realtors are trying to solve.
For those that want it – go for it. For those that it does NOT benefit, or actually causes them to be disrupted or cut off or negatively impacted THERE MUST BE AN OPT OUT provision. This forced program is only avoidable by removing ourselves from OREA and limiting our ability to earn a living. They control our MLS ACCESS- how is that right? Who paid to build this “non-profit” association and the tools that we use every day! No Mandatory program !
Erin, your article states “… travel insurance, life insurance, dental, vision and more, which I haven’t had since before 2010.” However if you read the small print, dental and vision will not be covered unless you wish to upgrade your plan. The fact that self employed business owners will be forced to pay for a plan that is hardly useful feels very dictatorial. OREA needs to have an opt out option.
This is not a lifeline for many. Orea’s mandate is related to real estate not forcing realtors to take insurance they may not want or need under that threat that they will take away the very livelihood of those realtors unless they subscribe. This should be optional allowing all realtors to make their own decisions for themselves and their families. This is not error and omission insurance related to our profession. Life and health insurance is personal and should remain that way. No matter how this is spun Orea has taken the choice away raising our dues substantially and impacting us. As someone soon becoming 65 I will
have no reduction of costs but less benefits which is age discrimination because I will still be forced to take this insurance if I still want to have my job.
Erin, your article states “… travel insurance, life insurance, dental, vision and more, which I haven’t had since before 2010.” However if you read the small print, dental and vision will not be covered unless you wish to upgrade your plan (to quite a larger fee). The fact that self employed business owners will be forced to pay for a plan that is hardly useful feels very dictatorial. OREA needs to have an opt out option.
Erin, your article states “… travel insurance, life insurance, dental, vision and more, which I haven’t had since before 2010.” However if you read the small print, dental and vision will not be covered unless you wish to upgrade your plan (a significantly larger fee, not even close to $ 2 a day). The fact that self employed business owners will be forced to pay for a plan that is hardly useful feels very dictatorial. OREA needs to have an opt out option.
Agreed Erin. For many this is a welcome addition to our business. The basic plan being available to many is indeed a lifeline as cost for individual plans would make it unattainable. There will be opposition to any initiative that is implemented, so the opposition to this plan is not surprising. This is a first year issue that we will not hear about in coming years because it will be part of the offering. The fact that the majority of the Real Estate Boards, through their elected representatives, approved this plan is a testament to the beneficial aspects this offers the majority of the Realtors in Ontario. Is it for everyone? No. But there’s not one thing a collective of 100,000 would agree on unanimously anyway. Glad it will help you, and the tens of thousands of Realtors that need this. I’ll certainly be able to use it, even with my existing plan in place. And for what it costs, it”s definitely great value. Will it go up? Maybe it will, but it will still be cheaper as a group plan than individually. Is it all encompassing? No, it’s not and to expect that from a $55/month plan is absurd. Those that will benefit from the add-ons can pay more. Would pre-existing conditions disqualify some from the benefits? Of course they will just like any other insurance out there. I don’t understand why some feel this plan should overlook age or pre-existing conditions. All in all, it’s a solid addition to the industry and the profession.
Awesome. I am glad you are ok that many will lose their existing plans and end up to either pay 10’s of thousands of dollars out of pocket or lose their livelihood. This plan should be optional and leave everyone else alone. The “majority of boards” voted for it ? No, the majority of boards voted against this. However with TRREB having 49 % of the voting power it took only 1 board to move this over the top. Let’s face it, this is the only way that TRREB can get out of the life insurance situation they put themselves into. You realize that the many thousands of former TRREB members are now losing the life insurance they paid into for years if not decades right ?
Read the email from this week. It explains that you won’t lose your current plan and thus is in addition to existing plans. There’s a lot of misleading information being floated in order to keep people from realizing the true facts about the ORWP. TRREB members are upset their $10,000 life insurance is being replaced by $100,000 or $50,000? That they paid into? Haha. You mean the mandatory insurance they paid in to? Interesting. They’re mad that they’re losing mandatory insurance OR mad that they have to pay into mandatory insurance? Like I said …. Everyone doesn’t need to like it. That’s the same with everything in life. And life continues.
You obviously are not aware of the specific situations of many realtors. The ema never addressed their situation. That situation has never been addressed. As to the life insurance, many people have been paying for years after they retired and now lose everything. But you seem to be fine with people being forced to lose their livelihood so they can keep their coverage for the medication that keeps them alive. Compassion isn’t everyone’s thing
It’s about it being mandatory.
Get it yet?
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp.
If you and the yes proponents are so cocksure it’s such a great plan you wouldn’t be explaining it in tomes every day or delivering zoom meetings and denying interactive sessions.
You would have just said, this plan is so fantastic and we’re so sure it’ll be a hit, it’s opt in.
But no, you didn’t because it just simply isn’t!
Erin
That’s great that you are excited about your coverage.
I think it’s wonderful there are options for you…those options also existed before OREA mandated this program. If health insurance was important to you, you could have sought out coverage for yourself as so many of us have.
A free society allows for personal choice. I would like to choose whether I want this additional health coverage or not.
I do not wish to be mandated into paying for coverage I don’t want and don’t need and have my livelihood threatened because of my desire to opt out.
Erin
I am a 34 year member. I have my own health care coverage
I will be 65 next August
This is of no benefit for me
As a matter of fact I fought in the courts for 4 years to have my benefits from my ex husband
Do I want to loose them NO
My personal opinion anyone that has been in the business for 17 years and no health coverage shame on you
We are independent contractors not employees of OREA
Also the older Realtors should not have to subsidize the younger ones when we have no benefits
Make this OWRP another mandatory
Stop with the nonsense! Read more about this program amd I assure you will not be happy. Do not tell me to get involved or stay quiet! I am a brand new agent and am being forced to take this! After less than 3 and thousands of dollars for scooling and licensingsl I am considering leaving! SHAME!
I have no issue with OREA offering a plan to its members (although this is significantly less coverage than I have been able to secure on my own the past 17 years!) but to make it mandatory is a significant over reach and should not be tied to my ability to practice real estate if I do not want to participate. Something of this scale and magnitude should never have been allowed to move forward in the manner it did and to say they have had the support of members across the province is simply not true. They had the support (and certainly not unanimous support) of a select group of Real Estate Boards and their directors with their allotted votes period. And the handful of ad hock member surveys they refer to as proof that this was so wanted but most doesn’t cut it for this program. I am a past president and was on our board of director for 7 years I am very thankful that WRAR makes evidence based decisions and said NO to this mandate.
Thank you so much for this personal article. It’s just one of the many reasons I am in favour of the benefits coming our way. I look forward to hearing about the family coverages this week. Great job Erin! 😊
Neither my husband or I need or want this coverage! As a self-employed individual, it is our own responsibility to sort out our own benefits and insurance programs. Something of this scale NEEDS to be optional. This is an extra $1400+ per year for my family now!! This is the most expensive headspace subscription on the planet. I can only imagine how much premiums are going to go up with this poorly negotiated contract. What a mess.
Hi Erin. You may want to check the fine print on pre-existing conditions. From my understanding, anyone who has be previously diagnosed with a condition will not be covered. Please do correct me if I have been misinformed.
There’s an old saying,
If you’re explaining you’re losing.
Thank you for your letter Erin, it’s always helpful to hear others viewpoints.
It’s unfortunate that it was not recognized or dealt with (negotiated out) by the task force looking into this, (Mr Hudak has also just this week, acknowledged the lack of consideration given to this particular matter):
This will be DEVASTATING to many members, to the point they will have no choice but to leave the profession.
*If you are covered under a late spouse’s plan, that coverage ceases upon you becoming primary on your own plan;
ALSO
*if you are covered under a former spouse’s plan via Divorce/Separation Agreement, you will also lose existing coverage, upon becoming a primary on your own policy.
There was NO consideration given to this scenario, we are hearing from many members who require 10s of thousands a year in life saving medications, which are currently fully covered- coverage they will LOSE forever, if they are still a REALTOR when this plan is adopted as it stands today. THEY have no choice but to leave the profession sadly, with it being tied directly to membership, not optional.
Personally I have always ensured I was well insured for life, disability, critical illness, full travel coverage etc, as others mentioned it’s very easy to set up through your PREC or holdco for tax advantages. There are many discounted options already offered by Brokerages/CREA
/Your local Chamber of Commerce etc.
It won’t affect me personally, aside that I don’t need it and it looks like I won’t be covered anyway, it’s just an extra expense now. I won’t give up my existing coverage as this plan is minimal at best, and at my age and medical history, it would be very difficult to obtain again later if necessary.
Like yourself Erin, I also suffer from medical issues, diagnosed with RA at 4 yrs old and all of the hell that has been for 46 years, as well as other past significant health issues that I fully expect to be used to refuse me coverage.
I don’t anticipate any actual coverage under this plan unfortunately. They will use my condition and history to exclude me as it’s never been “stable” for 12 consecutive months.
I empathize with your situation, personally I sought out coverage at a young age and yes I pay very high premiums to be covered. As a parent it was extremely important to me that I had a safety net and protection for my children if I passed.
This policy could have been negotiated far better with the buying power of a group this large.
27 years – 10s of thousands of volunteer hours to my Association, my Board of Directors (I’m a Past President), OREA & CREA task forces, Gov Relations,
Committees, Arbitration & Appeals Tribual etc, etc.
* I am involved, I pay attention, I understand the by-laws and processes extremely well and I have HUGE concerns with how this process was handled.
I find the rushed nature very troubling, so many Associations actually voted NO, it is being misrepresented with the “80% approval” talking points- many board delegates voted NO due to a severe lack of pertinent information available prior to the vote. There is still, WELL AFTER THE FACT, a severe shortage of pertinent information available.
I chaired a task force when my own Association asked us to look into a health plan as well – with a massively overwhelming response, over 80% as I recall (not less than 2% as per TRREBs survey), we spent a very, very long time sending out RFPs, sending them back, asking them to sharpen their pencils, add additional benefits, increase coverage, reduce co-pays etc etc etc, it took AGES to do properly, and we were able to come up with a far better plan than this, for less than 500 members, not the power of 96000!!!!
At the end of the day we put it to a membership vote and it wasn’t approved, and we respected that decision, it didn’t matter how much time and energy had been put into it, the members spoke and their voice was respected.
If the OREA committee didn’t know enough that this particular plan would cause significant hardship and loss of much better existing coverage to many members, the insurer should have! Saying “everyone is covered” is incredibly misleading.
This program needs to be revisited, and negotiated properly and transparently if OREA hopes to regain the confidence of it’s own members.
You are causing so much turmoil in our industry. Stop this nonsense and give us the option.
I don’t care what it costs me to fight this. I’ve fortunately had a very successful 36 year career in the business. Wish we would have stayed the course with our Quinte and District board.
I’ve got an excellent personal Manulife extensive care and critical care policy for over 30 years now and your product is so inferior.
Thanks for creating such a divisive environment.
All this “we’ll that’s great for you but what about meeeeee” is the culmination of the unnecessary controversy here.
For a bunch of people that have griped for years about associations not doing enough to raise the bar of entry to real estate, it’s nothing short of amusing to see those same people now complaining about being forced to contribute to raising that bar. Especially when the way it’s raised *literally* puts more value than the cost back in everyone’s pockets.
It’s really gross. You all could really benefit from an additional $750 in calming massage in 2024 from the $600 you’re going to pay. Hopefully you make use of that, and that it helps induce a bit of a positive mindset.
Obviously some have not grabbed the concept that the opposition is NOT about money. Not at all. For some it creates life threatening decisions to possibly have to give up ones livelihood in order to be able to get life saving medication. For many others it’s the burden of juggling more than one plan. We are asked to pay ahead of time and then pay cash for whatever our expenses are and wait God knows how long to get reimbursed (for some expenses) . Only after that we can contact our REAL insurance to apply for coordinating benefits. There is so much more that is being ignored. I hope you will enjoy this miserable plan that doesn’t include neither dental nor vision.
How do you think you are going to get $750 benefits out of $600 payment?
Does your budget balance itself, too?
IF it is in fact like what you said, “puts more value than the cost back in everyone’s pockets”, how is the bar being raised at all when people are getting rewarded as you have suggested to enter into the profession in Ontario?
You contradicted yourself in the same short paragraph. Sometimes, the more you speak, the more mistakes you make. Take some time to process what you are trying to say and stress test your logic before you hit sent next time.
Hey Erin, Glad this works for you. A little disappointed that an adult with a family of 5 didn’t plan better for their future. I did. When I decided 16 years ago to go into Real Estate, I made sure my partner and I had benefits for our children and ourselves. I didn’t ask anyone else to chip in. And it irks me now that OREA, under the guise of benevolent socialism, is trying to guilt us into paying $600 more per year to help less fortunate Realtors. My family’s priorities are different from yours. We have a great life, love to travel and have worked hard for our home and the fun things we do. Why should I have to pay more to subsidize benefits for agents who work part-time? For agents who take 6 months off? For agents who own multiple properties? For agents who made a choice years ago NOT to organize a benefits program that looks after their family? It’s super annoying. And no, I won’t lose my current benefits with this less-than-mediocre package but it moves to first place and moving forward, instead of just flashing my card or providing a number, I will have to do more paperwork. So maybe I don’t lose coverage but it will certainly be more work for me. And that sucks, Erin. More money and more paperwork. OREA was sneaky with this. They were sneaky making this work for them and now, agents in Ontario don’t trust them. I’m pretty excited to watch this play out Erin, because a big change is happening in Ontario Real Estate right now. People are mad and I am sorry some of them hurt your feelings, but your article was pretty tone deaf and really punched up the propaganda that OREA has been shovelling. People are mad, Erin. You SHOULD have benefits. OREA SHOULD provide benefits (or something, am I right?) but people who don’t need them, should be able to opt out. That’s all we are asking for!