Editor’s note: In addition to the results below, there were also 29 who abstained (REM did not have this information at the time of writing).
Today, the Ontario Real Estate Association (OREA) held a special general meeting to discuss and vote on its Ontario Realtors Wellness Plan (ORWP).
A statement released to members of the Lakelands Association of Realtors by Sandy Raymer, executive officer, noted the results:
59 voted in favour of changing ORWP from mandatory to optional, while 73 voted against it. So, ORWP will continue as a mandatory program effective January 1, 2024, as per OREA bylaw.
Another memo to members of the Realtors Association of Grey Bruce Owen Sound (RAGBOS), from executive officer Anne Schneider, notes that members will be charged $164.97 per quarter starting with the December 2023 invoice covering 2024’s first quarter. It also notes that board members not in good standing by 11 am on December 29, 2023 will be suspended from board services until dues are paid in full.
Emma Caplan-Fisher is an editor and writer for REM. She has over a decade of experience in various content types and topics, including real estate, housing, business, tech, and home & design. Emma’s work has also been featured in Cottage Life, the Vancouver Real Estate Podcast, the Chicago Tribune, Narcity Media, Healthline, and others. She holds a Certificate in Editing from Simon Fraser University.
🙄 surprise, surprise….
You forgot to mention that 29 board members abstained from voting on this very important issue. They were elected so that members could have a voice. the voting process was not truly reflective of the memberships wishes. Why does it have to be mandatory? If we do not pay we lose access to mls.
So the people elected to vote on behalf of members abstain from voting??? Unbelievable!!!
This is completely BIAS and forcing to pay for useless Insurance coverage. Just to make Insurance providers a loopholes. It shouldn’t be Mandatory but optional………….
Mandatory makes life easy. No need to think and make decisions.
Yes, you just need to blindly pay the increasing insurance year by year.
You are totally WRONG… we are “independent contractors” and should not be mandated to pay for a “wellness plan” or loose our MLS access. This is disgusting and
RIGGED!
You have to think more. You must use this plan first (except it has no dental or vision) and put in the claim. After that (since it only pays 70 %) you must claim the balance from your current insurance. You are also not allowed to “skip” the ORWP and go straight to your own insurance since that would be insurance fraud.
D.P. Shaw, If you like living like 1984 sure.
lol if you actually think that way I’d assume you’re terrible with money. I already have TWO healthcare policies that far outshine this garbage number one. Number 2, this is OREA’s way of trying to stay relevant because other than the fact CREA has agreed to make it that we need them to use MLS, they’d be a thing of the past by now. They’re a joke. But don’t worry. OREA has a few things coming they don’t know about just yet. I’d say in the next 5 years Hudak and Tania will be out of a job hopefully. This is also legal extortion. Someone is benefitting financially and it’s painfully clear. Any trivial attempt to deny that theres collusion going on is an absolute joke. Hang in there OREA, you’ve got a few upcoming things coming your way and I hope it bankrupts you.
They didn’t ask opinion/vote of the Realtors who really pay? Corporate world, Huh..
I already pay into benefits and life insurance through my full time job which is mandatory. This is a complete waste of money for me. Just another money grab. Why not make it optional? What’s the big deal? How much insurance does one need?
I believe there should be No part time Realtors or they shoud at least not have the right to a say.
Who ever said this was for you?
This is done to keep OREA afloat and push whatever agenda they are haded by their handlers.
Think this is bad? You wait and see.
Starting from $660 a year with inflations.
Nobody would help part time agents. They need to fight by themselves in different ways.
Full time job? That is the problem in this industry, too many part time agents.
You have a full time job and doing real estate on the side, that really explains it all. As a full time Realtor I welcome this, if you cannot afford it, you could always retire from Real Estate and leave it for the Realtors that actually do it for a living and not a hobby.
So if you have to pay into your other jobs MANDATORY INSURANCE PLAN why do you think this JOB should be any different- you kind of just made the point that most jobs provide insurance as mandatory in order to provide attractive rates
I’m a part time Agent now as well and thankfully so. Nobody is saying there shouldn’t be an ORWP. Not at all, but it should be OPTIONAL. Also, to the person that says why is it different from your normal job paying a mandatory fee for healthcare, I’ve never seen a workplace make healthcare plans mandatory. It’s always optional. Some people don’t want to pay for it or have a better third party plan. To the people that say PART TIME AGENTS SHOULDN”T HAVE A SAY, Why? Full OR Part Time we still have to pay the EXACT same fees you do. Part Time agents don’t affect you as a Full Time Agent.
What should be mandatory is “Full Time Agents”
The things that OREA should lobby and mandate are no double ending. No blind bidding. No fake docs for mortgage by lobbying linking CRA to the process. But no. They decide to hurt new realtors who r struggling already to make it work.
This news outlet is no better than mainstream media. This story lacks so many things. If you are going to pick and choose what you say don’t say anything.
So what was the point of the vote??????? What a big joke! Am I surprised? Nope, not at all. Just another money grab !
Not a surprise on the vote! The Boards are not looking out for their members. The Members said it loud a clear and some Boards didn’t listen.And for the Agents who think their should be no part time Realtors why? Because they take a few deals away from you? Maybe they need to supplement their income. I am semi retired from being a full time Realtor so I shouldn’t have a say, I have put in 25 years! Now I just work with friends, family and loyal clients. So I shouldn’t work because I am part time and taking business away from you. Too Bad! How about those new Realtors struggling to get started did you forget about them? This whole situation is disgusting and OREA and the Boards who voted this should be ashamed. I am of them!
The vote was not for optional vs mandatory – it was all in or all out with no option for optional participation
This should not have been a board vote. Something as important as this financial gouge it a one person one vote. This organization has outlived its usefulness and needs a vote to decide if it is even required anymore.
EXTORTION!
This mandatory ORWP is only for the purpose to keep OREA relevant and fund their future existence when they become self insured and take over the program in a couple of years. The members were only pawns in that chess game!!
OREA is just a voluntary membership per RECO. But MLS system is controlled by TRREB under OREA. So this should be called monopolistic competition. Any agents without OREA membership might try to file complaints with Competition Bureau Canada to get access to MLS with some sort of service charges instead of so many memberships, especially for part time agents.
OREA is not the MLS system. An Association can just have direct membership to CREA. However if current associations do not participate in ORWP then OREA has said they will terminate membership from OREA which is unprecedented and that Association may qualify for direct membership in CREA. Well on our way to disorganized real estate in Ontario.
Only RECO decides and handles agents’ qualifications , neither OREA nor CREA. If OREA refuses to provide access of MLS to who don’t have its membership, those agents can try to turn to the Competition Bureau of Canada, I guess. It is apparently a
monopoly.
try again: 45% of total, around 40000 members say NO. The voice should not be nothing!
This just means we have at least 45 % part-time Realtors in our industry.
untrue.Not even close.
To: Sabine Nassar, what is your truth? Please bring your calculations or evidence. I calculate by the percentage OREA announced 73:59 and 90000 members…. Thanks
To Paolo Zulian, Part time realtors pay AS THE SAME AS the full time realtors do. Some part time realtors have more achievements than average full time agents. Part time realtors of course should have the same voice and vote.
Glad this passed. It will bring extra security to many.
And nothing for so many others…who are subsidizing those who benefit.
What security? No dental, no vision. For around $ 100, most can get a plan that actually includes dental and vision. I pay for one for my daughter, and it’s much better than ORWP. Most realtors already have insurance and must use two plans to process claims.
To many, they are forced to have double or even triple insurances or security which they don’t need at all
Security what?
Check your numbers (73-59 reversed in current ver of article)
The #1 BIG story is ACTUALLY who /what authority gave the person who told 29 delegates from TRREB to abstain???
I thought the survey showed 40% pro ORWP another 40% against it and 20% who were undecided.
#2 BIG story is why did only 41k of 72k members of TRREB complete the survey ?
Esp given that in order to use Torontomls.net DURING a WHOLE WEEK of survey voting, a member was compelled to complete tge 5-10 minute survey…. did 30k members NOT access the Torontomls for a whole week?
Were they all on holidays?
What’s that 30k of membership going to do when they receive their combo CREA/ Orea / TRREB invoice this week?
It ain’t over till it’s over … Yogi Berra
Very sad day indeed. Corruption and greed win. 68% members voted against this expensive subpar health plan.
So true. The only fair vote would have been ONE member, ONE vote and a simple yes, no, or abstain. Not a vague TRREB survey with somewhat in favour or somewhat opposed. Think about real estate transactions, somewhat in favour of accepting an offer is NOT accepting an offer!
The reason why not all the TRREB agents completed the survey is very simple – they were not allowed to. If someone is a member of 2 boards, like me with MREB, he couldn’t take part in the survey. I have been an active member of TRREB for 25 years, I have received all notifications and reminders about the survey, but I couldn’t open it.
I saw different results from TRREB survey as well. It might be the good time for TRREB to say goodbye to OREA which collects most part of money from TRREB members and demands more it looks like, but not respecting so many TRREB members who are against Mandatory.
I find it very puzzling that 29 Board of Directors abstained from voting. Why?
You forgot to mention the 29 abstained votes.
For an initiative as divisive and precedent-setting as the ORWP, abstaining from voting is totally unconscionable. There should have been no room for anything other than a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ vote.
Had even half of those abstained votes been cast in favour of scrapping the ORWP we’d be having a different conversation.
The independent survey results provided by Frameworks Analytics (not TRREB’s self-interested, internally-produced survey) clearly showed that 60-70% of respondents in each member board were against the mandatory ORWP.
Despite this, some boards used abstaining votes to manipulate the numbers in order to protect OREA’s best interests instead of its members.
November 29 was a very sad day for organized real estate in Ontario.
The voting process will come under scrutiny when this issue goes before the courts. OREA and TRREB manipulated the results of the survey in their favour. 29 board members abstain from voting, Why? Were they bullied into abstaining rather than vote against it? Lots of questions need to be answered. One thing is certain, OREA and TRREB have lost the trust and respect of many realtors in Ontario.
I couldn’t agree more, Elaine.
That is the real issue. These abstainers were elected to represent their membership. By abstaining they in effect took that vote away from those members. Unprecedented , there has never been an OREA vote with 29 abstentions. Obvious manipulation and abuse of their power.
I also couldn’t Agree more, Elaine. The manipulation, on so many levels, Is disgusting. “Abstaining” is for the Cowards that are being lead around, by the Bully in the School yard. They should ALL be ashamed of themselves. I, for one, am Ashamed to even call myself a member of this organization. Emma Caplan-Fisher, editor and a writer for REM should be fact checking the information being shared. Just because they said it was so, doesn’t make it the Truth.
Thanks for your feedback. The information published was based on what was received at the time. The 29 abstained was not included because we couldn’t verify it at the time of writing. This article has since been updated, and we have just published a more comprehensive story as well: https://realestatemagazine.ca/orwp-special-general-meeting-the-issues-the-vote-the-next-steps-from-here/
Agree Elaine, abstaining should not have been an option. YES or NO that’s it! To use abstaining to strategically manipulate the numbers on something so important as this is so disheartening.
Agree.
YOU voted them in as the voice of this organization. THEY voted this in as the will of this organization. That is how this system works.You don’t like what their vote and direction is????? YOU figure it out. By the way, Part Time Realtors should only count as Half a Vote in this “discussion” as they only commit to this profession Half of the Time. Subsidizing their lack of ability, commitment and professionalism should never be considered in the “discussion”.
I dispise you tearing down people who may, for whatever reason, not work full time. The gross negligence I have seen over the last 15 years was NOT from part timers but from sloppy full time (and full of ego) big “boys and girls” who think they are better than others.
If part time realtors just paid half the membership and half the insurance, I will think you were right! But they pay the same as you do. How can you have this idea? your wording is really offensive to all part time realtors.
I think it is time to send a letter to the Competition Commissioner with screenshots of comments like yours so they can have that in their files for when the filing against OREA lands on his desk.
That members of this industry don’t know those words are anti-competitive behaviour is just one shocking example of under informed the collective has been in this industry. Fortunately many are now investing time and their vote to change that.
The amount of articles I’ve read in this very magazine weeping, pulling our hair and beating our chest about our need to convince our clients (and the public in general) of our worth as a licensed professional, supplying a service and charging money for it. How can we convince consumers that we are indispensable to the deal, when that person is working at the local drive through asking if they’d like fries with their order. I wouldn’t trust any professional (a Lawyer, a Doctor, a CPA) with my life, my finances or my legal position if they can’t support themselves economically, or time wise doing the job that I’m paying them money for. This is like having a Realtor that takes a bus to meet his clients. Using the excuse that I’m part time and can’t afford it, or my spouse has this coverage is completely immaterial. This is the cost of doing business in 2023 and is for the betterment of the industry as a whole AND this initiative was needed and should have happened ages ago. My comments aren’t anti competition, they’re just common sense. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. By the way please make sure to send a screen shot of this comment to “them”, so when “they” come hunting for the guy having this conversation, they’ll know who to look for.
A few days before that a shocking event happened, TREEB’s hand—picked 6 candidates for director, 5 were incumbents, 1 was an OREA task force member or some such thing.
All backed the ORWP.
All were soundly defeated.
I can’t find REM’s article on that huge upset.
right ? The usual cherry picking
The abstained votes were a surprise to me at first, but I have had the chance to give it some thought. In all surveys across the province there were members in favor of ORWP and those against it. There were also those that did not have an opinion either way. What is a board to do? Decide that those who don’t have an opinion want them to vote for or against? By abstaining with some votes they were actually able to represent their membership.
Elsewhere you put forward what you must have thought was a brilliant excuse for the abstainers.
That excuse was that the abstainers represented the dissenters so they had to be represented. Imagine that. All of a sudden the dissenters were given a voice, a voice that I am positive you have nowhere stated that the March vote should be so split.
When it came time to determine that the 65% dissenters from the 2019 survey OREA should be recognized in a split vote, I’m certain you have to today not questioned how they had no vote.
I bet that you can never produce proof you ever advocated for a split to reflect those survey respondents who said no to mandatory.
Prove me wrong.
It would require honesty to admit that the abstainers were either cowards to vote as per the survey, or it was purposefully designed to skew the results.
I mean really, if you or anyone else abstain, it’s either because you want to change the results which is unethical or you have no backbone. Maybe even both.
which comes first? mandatory auto insurance, mandatory health club memberships, mandatory cell phone and internet plans or $2,000+ in annual premiums to 96,000 now captive customers. Over/under on the latter is FY 2026
Gord McCormick
Broker of Record
Ottawa
You nailed it. The rates for these (pathic and useless) plans are only guaranteed for two years, and the rules read that members don’t have to be asked if they agree to any future increases. The sky is the limit. I am convinced that becoming “self-insured” is the long game. “We ain’t seen nothing yet”.
Exactly… If OREA provides MANDATORY clients for every realtor, I will accept those mandatory arrangements
I totally agree with Robert Ede, the big story is absolutely not only who gave the 29 delegates the authority to abstain, but more, why did those 29 delegates opt to abstain. This is probably one of the most controversial issues we have seen of late, so why would any representatives of TRREB choose to do that? Why don’t we name the abstainers and request an explanation of why this was done. It is not a privacy issue when it affects so many realtors.
This has a severe stink to it in my opinion and should we not be told what board voted which way? So much for transparency, but at the end of the day I can only view this as the revenue generator OREA desperately needed when they lost the education portfolio!!
this is definitely wrong. And those people saying it will get rid of part time agents. Part Time agents have always been a part of this business. There are many who have been in the business 30 – 45 years and now are working less and doing part time. These people should not have to leave a business they have helped shape for most of their lives because they have slowed down as they age. It has always been a business that you could work until you wanted to stop – not to stop when forced. The senior agents have long paid their dues here and for this to be pushed through is a nightmare. It does not do anything for these senior agents who have had insurance and life insurance for probably 30 years. Orea says they wouldnt get it on their own if they were looking for life insurance at 65 – well I do not know any 65 year olds who didn’t buy life insurance when it was much cheaper for them to do it unless they didnt want life insurance. The vote would have been 88 to 73 as there were 29 abstained votes when in something with magnitude there should have been no abstains allowed. That was all fixed so that the plan would go through. How crooked this business has become and they are going to fall flat on their faces as agents leave in droves and see what that does now for membership – you think you are paying high fees. Well let me tell you when 10-20,000 members leave your fees will go much higher just like the horrible insurance plan – when thousands of age start making claims and use up everything they can just to get back their money that premium is going to go up 100 to 200% the first year it can be raised, if not more! And, you will be locked in and can’t get out. In an economy where people can’t even afford groceries due to the last 4 years this is what you come out with to protect OREA because they have no purpose? Good luck with that. TRREB is going to lose thousands of agents as well who will leave and join a non Orea board – coming soon to a station near you. This is going to backfire big time! We are not accepting this nor should we have to – this is an overreach of power by a lot of huge egos and has nothing to do with the Real Estate Business.
OREA desperately needs revenue? Really? Have you looked at their financial statements? The reserve fund is over 90 million. It’s beyond my comprehension how a non-profit can even get away with that.
OREA has made it clear they care more about their agenda than its membership. The division they have caused will be slow to heal. If there was another option after 35 years as a Realtor I would leave OREA in a second.
OREA just took away our constitutional right of choice, the next thing. OREA will do is tell you which car, which cell phone, which supplier to deal with. This has nothing to do with part-time agents or full-time agents. This has to do with your civil rights being eroded in this country. Welcome to Canada.
I remain severely disappointed with OREA. However as a member of the Ottawa Board, I am encouraged as they have sent out a notice explaining the results of our own survey and response, ie against the ORWP. At least one provincial real estate board has integrity. Thanks jf
please at WRAR (Waterloo Region) to the list of boards with integrity. Right from the start. And they haven’t given up on the fight yet
Mad as hell and want a NEW Ontario Realtor organization with MLS access.
agree. OREA is not represent so many members’ best interests at all this time. So many members ! They can build another OREA to represent their best interests.
This whole thing was orchestrated by TRREB so they could eleminate the “mandatory” life & major accident insurance policy from their fees and reduce the TRREB cost to their members, thereby putting their program at a more competitive advantage. But in the process, because OREA has become a sycophant for TRREB, it is quickly becoming irrelevant.
I can only presume that many of the new directors at TRREB chose to abstain, but effectively that had the same result as voting against the motions.
However, less than 50% of TRREB’s members actually do work in real estate. You do not have to be part of “organized real estate” (ORE) to retain your registration. My belief is that this will create an opening for companies that are not part of ORE to fill a need at a much lower cost, You won’y have any Board fees, OREA fees (with their now mandatory Wellness program) nor CREA fees.
There are companies that are not part of ORE that are already using the publicly available REALTOR.ca (and others) website to get listing information for their buyer clients. The next step will be to extend this service to those that have no current need to belong to ORE. Why should you be paying all these extra fees simply for the purpose of retaining your ability to sell your own home when that time comes?
As far as I understand, the “new directors” are only starting in January. It’s the old crowd that is responsible. There is a reason why most current directors were not re-elected, but that obviously didn’t help with this week’s vote.
Sabine: Thanks for the clarification.
Blackmail…nothing less. Pay or quit the business
I have to admit this is starting to sound like the aftermath of the last US election – are we going to be asking for a re-count next … time to move forward and focus on what we do best and help others
This very likely will be landing in front of a 3 judge panel depending on TRREB’s actions in the near future.
From the noon start voting glitch to the locking out members voting for a regional director, to the varied ways to fix that and the voiding of their first vote, to the shutting down of the chat feature at the AGM and ignoring the countless number of questions asked before the vote.
Hope that answers your question.
If it must exist – realtors should at least be able to opt-out of the services that are not applicable to them or that they don’t want – thereby making it more equitable (and hopefully more affordable) for the member.
You Say “Ontario Boards” vote to keep ORWP, this is wrong….TREB voted to keep ORWP and managed to manipulate their survey their way instead of doing an independent survey like all the other Boards who voted no.
Also, you realtors picking on part time realtors should be ashamed of yourself!! It’s a free country, if someone wants to work part time so be it!
Currently OREA has a very abusive, dominant position over us realtors using mls as a way to force this upon us. There are anti competitive issues going on here as well!
This is not over, our eyes have been wide open!
And Tania the OREA presidents remark that OREA defeated us says ALOT!
We need some transparency on who and how much money they are going to make for selling this to OREA. This should be optional. It has become that we now work for the MLS OREA and CREA and RECO..
At the least this should be optional.
I posted 2 comments today – one was posted second was under review – why are neither posted … nothing derogatory was stated
Glad the ‘eff you got mine’ crowd isn’t getting more of what they wanted. If the tax deductible $165/quarter ($55/mo) is unacceptable, then goodbye and good riddance. We could do with fewer part time agents.
wow. You know medical expenses are not deductible as a business expense right ? No wonder you are not willing to show your full name. DO you really think the boards want less agents ????? LOL. This has absolutely nothing to do with part timers.
Your ignorance is your bliss.
Then Canada Revenue comes for you.
Even The vote with TREB was un democratic as they would not let the 10,000 people plus vote.. why because it was not there home board???.. we are paid members of TREB, they toke the money but no vote.. there is a lot layers here, follow the money
The amount of misinformed people in these comments that are FOR this ORWP is crazy. Let me clarify for the people that are badmouthing Part-Time Agents and agreeing with this. NOBODY HAS EVER SAID THERE SHOULD NOT BE AN ORWP! We are simply saying it should NOT be Mandatory. I agree that Realtors that want it should get it, they deserve it. But WHY should someone who has no use for it or doesn’t want it be forced to pay? There is 2 reasons. First, Whether you believe it or not, SOMEONE is benefitting GREATLY financially. No legit reason has ever been given as to why they cannot make this mandatory. Second, OREA has no function in this industry any longer. This is how they can guarantee themselves they stay existing. That will now change for them guaranteed in the coming few years. We are CONTRACTORS not employees. This is extortion and is a gross misuse of their power. Without their little agreement with RECO and CREA to have to pay them for MLS, they’d have been bankrupt the second they lost the education portion of licensing. Research the ORWP and the facts. Its embarrassing some of these posts.
Sabine, medical expenses / insurance premiums are deductible if you are incorp and have a HWP – so I wouldn’t be so fast in calling other people “ignorant “
You may want to apologize to Mike G
Too funny. You also don’t have the courage to write under your own name. Medical insurance is not a deductible expense under business expenses. It is deductible under medical expenses (which gains only a tiny fraction of what a direct write-off garners) Period. End of story. As to quoting me, I wasn’t the one using the word “ignorant”. That was you. No apologies are necessary. Merry Christmas.
LTM, I believe you should seek out accounting tax law advice before commenting. Individuals are members of OREA and are charged the premium, individuals are not able to deduct medical insurance premiums as a business expense. PREC’s and other corporations might be able to do so, but only if invoiced to them, or do you know differentl?
Premiums and medical expenses are 100% deductible if you have a HWP (HealthWealthfarePlan/Trust) under your Corporation and every employee is given the same benefit
Do some more research before you BOLDLY preach as an expert in the field of accounting as a Realtor
Thanks LTM, I see that you know this cold. Please offer help to everyone, identify for us the applicable tax provisions and the manner in which the HWP trust is to be formed? Please advise how a PREC or other corporation, would be able to allow a registrants OREA premium as a deduction and the other employees are not on that same plan? And what is the proper name for the HWP under the income tax act?
I submitted a comment but it has been rejected. However, another was submitted earlier in response to Gerald Tostowaryk’s opinion piece:
“Ethical Dilemmas”
As of this post, it’s still up.
Happy reading!
Glad to be retired twelve years from this mess.
On a side note, I remember your participation many years ago. It was always fun, although we often disagreed. I hope you are well. Merry Christmas
I have searched the law libraries for a precedent that allows a body to which we pay dues to force an unnecessary and unrelated product.
Realtors have worked for decades without a plan- it isn’t necessary to perform the position. This borders on criminality. There is some money changing hands somewhere.
I will give up my license on principle- and sue for the lost fees and income. OREA will cease to exist if they continue down this path.
Totally against the plan being mandatory!! Should have been optional, and everyone would be happy!! OREA’s priority is sadly the almighty $$$, and not our health or wellness. If they really cared, it would be optional. It’s never too late, OREA prove me/us wrong!! Thank you
Health and Dental has always been available to realtors via OREA membership and WAS a CHOICE (see profile pic)! This roll out of ORWP is shady and underhanded. Has anyone inquiry as to the % of premium they goes directly to OREA for “administration” of the Plan? This is unprecedented… offering group coverage with NO opt out if you can provide proof of coverage in another plan.
OREA has ALWAYS had insurance for those who wanted it! There was no need to make ORWP mandator.
OREA had Health and Dental Plan that clearly no one wanted (see pic) The ORWP is criminal…