It may be news to some Ontario realtors that the province’s real estate association is proposing to implement a mandatory insurance and benefits program for its members that could be approved in just a few days.
The Ontario Real Estate Association (OREA) assembly, made up of representatives from member boards, will hold a special meeting on Jun. 20 to vote on the Ontario Realtor Wellness Program (ORWP), which, if approved, will take effect Jan. 1, 2024.
The proposed standard plan can be viewed by members on OREA’s website. The association has had a task force looking into the viability of the program for the past few months.
OREA president Tania Artenosi sent a message and video to local boards a while back explaining that the program would be the first of its kind in North America. Surveys have indicated to OREA that far too many of its members currently don’t have private health insurance and that a safety net is a top desire, Artenosi notes.
“We know this is moving at a rapid rate. But we don’t want to wait any longer to offer our members the support they need.”
What does the plan include?
If the plan is approved, it will be available to all members in the province. No medical test or questionnaire will be required to determine eligibility to participate. “That’s big,” states Artenosi in the video. Members with a pre-existing medical condition won’t get a payout for that under critical illness insurance but will be eligible for other aspects of the standard plan, including drug coverage for their condition.
The program will include life insurance; critical illness insurance; out-of-country emergency medical travel insurance; and accidental death and dismemberment insurance. There’s also a member and family assistance program that provides virtual mental health support, along with healthcare coverage, including prescription drugs capped at $750, paramedical services (chiropractor, massage, and several others) capped at $750, and medical supplies capped at $500.
How much will it cost?
The cost per member is expected to be about $660 annually.
Additional options for dental, vision, and more will be available for members looking for enhanced coverage at their own expense. Realtor family members and board association and brokerage staff apparently will be able to enroll in the program at an additional cost if they wish.
Now here comes the rub.
“Offering a plan of this calibre at such a low cost requires the buying power of 96,000 members, meaning if approved, the ORWP standard plan will be mandatory for all OREA members, and all OREA members will pay the same, regardless of age,” Artenosi continues in her video message.
No opt-out provision for members
If the plan is approved, annual dues will increase to cover the cost and participating will be a condition of OREA membership. Even for those who already have coverage through another provider, an opt-out provision will not be available (at least not at this point).
This isn’t an issue for some members. “I’m single. I’d be very happy to have benefits. I’m excited about it. I hope it goes through,” says Orangeville agent Nancy Urekar, who’s with Coldwell Banker and has been in the business for six years.
But others have concerns on many levels.
“I am furious that OREA thinks they can force health insurance on me,” says Kitchener-based Royal LePage agent Sabine Nassar. She believes that an optional package could be of value to some members but feels that making the insurance mandatory is outrageous, particularly as many people already have benefits, whether on their own or through a spouse or other family member.
That includes her. “Do I really need more?” she asks. “We pay so many dues already.”
Reduced benefits for those 65+
And she’s a senior, so it’s a potential double whammy. The concern is that for those 65 and over, some benefits will be reduced. “Yet I’ll have to pay the same annual fee as my younger colleagues,” observes Nassar.
Her board — the Waterloo Region Association of Realtors (WRAR) — conducted its own internal survey to get member feedback on the proposed insurance, as reportedly did various others.
Along with the mandatory piece, which seems to be the biggest stumbling block all around (that message came through “loud and clear,” according to the WRAR survey), one of the issues unearthed by the Waterloo board was that many members felt they didn’t have enough information to make an informed decision.
While WRAR commends OREA for wanting to help realtors in a meaningful way and finds that the plan “offers good value” for those who need it, the association says it cannot support it in its current form.
“Forcing all members to participate regardless of their needs in order to make it more affordable to the minority who do want it is problematic.”
– WRAR report
“This is an adjunct benefit of a membership of independent contractors that has nothing to do with the business of trading in real estate,” notes the WRAR report. “Forcing all members to participate regardless of their needs in order to make it more affordable to the minority who do want it is problematic.”
WRAR would support “deferring a decision until OREA can do a more extensive member engagement to better assess the implementation requirements,” but doubts this will happen. The organization suspects that the Jun. 20 vote may be a “fait accompli” with the results already pre-determined due to the fact that the Toronto Regional Real Estate Board (TRREB) holds a preponderance of votes, effectively rendering it “an oligarch.”
“We’re doing this for the dual self-employed family who has fallen on hard times, the cancer survivor, and the realtor who needs mental health support to make it through the day.”
– Stacey Evoy, OREA past president & ORWP co-chair
TRREB and a handful of other associations already offer members an insurance program, WRAR report points out. The Ontario Realtor Wellness Program would be a logical fit for these boards, WRAR notes, “since it most likely expands on the coverage provided to their members while offloading the program from those boards to OREA.”
OREA did not address these specific concerns when questioned by Real Estate Magazine but sent a release from OREA’s past president and ORWP co-chair, Stacey Evoy, concluding with, “This new member benefit will change lives. That’s why we’re doing this. We’re doing this for the dual self-employed family who has fallen on hard times, the cancer survivor, and the realtor who needs mental health support to make it through the day.”
Susan Doran is a Toronto-based freelance writer who has been contributing to REM since its very first issue.
No thank you, already have better coverage i pay on my own and i am over 65.
Never saw survey that asked whether i had insurance or not.
BIG NO THANKS
Same for me, Arlene. OREA also offers Lifeline to those with mental health challenges.
I do not want this coverage!
I do not want that I do not have an option!
I do not want to work or live in a communist organization!
What member of OREA is getting payback for pushing this plan?
Waterloo board’s position echos my opinion. My own board is supporting it despite me and others challenging it. It should be optional. OREA has no business imposing this so I can work. It’s personal insurance and my life – not theirs!
I completely disagree and feel if I needed or wanted health coverage I would seek it out myself. I do not want to be forced to pay into something I already have and do not need!… I feel for the agents that are going through rough times and this service should be made available to them but not at the cost of other members that do not need it. I was never asked what I thought about this and never had an opportunity to vote. So much for democracy.
I am totally fed up with new money grab.
I feel we already pay enough for the services that we get and don’t need additional expenses added to our lives. The very idea that it is mandatory is very surprising as if we are working I. a communist organization where there are no choices. Further more what happens when your wife is also a realtor, double whammy!!!
Really not a very smart idea at all !!
There should be a discounted rate for 65+ as the benefits are less than half and not every senior is a snowbird so you can stick your travel insurance somewhere..
This is just an outrage when we have no voice about paying almost the same amount that we pay annually in treb fees. Many boards are amalgamating with Trreb so have the big board kick in a portion…I can foresee OREA atrophy by 15%…
Really, OREA has very little purpose left, after losing the education program. This is an attempt to make them relevant IMO. Administering a $60Mil a year policy keeps a few people busy
This is a discriminatory program. It is forced on all members yet not all members are getting the same coverage. That’s discrimination! OREA is clearly discriminating against a certain group and that is those over 65.
I am 77 years old this plan is not workable for me there should be an opt out option for people of my age and who will not benefit from this stay out of our personal lives please
I object this offering. I am a senior and don’t need Orwp.
The mandatory part of the insurance was not emphasized. In fact most agents thought it was optional. During a recent vote at OREA there was an extraordinary amount of abstentions.
Penalized the over 65 agents. Good gig for the insurance companies.. OREA is also receiving some of the money for administration.
This is a clear example of fraudulent…They put hands in your pocket and you have no options….Please DO NOT PAY this. Together, we can stop them.
OREA has no rights to force this on us, this is outrageous!
I completely disagree. If I need coverage I would get it myself. Why the board is forcing me into this money grab. Why OREA is forcing it on all members a mandatory thing considering that some 55%members have coverage through their partner or their own. Why they choose to select group of people to discuss it? Please provide a list of those who decided for all.
i do not need this as i’m covered under my wife family plan. This is an unnecessary burden on Realtors. This is not fair. It should not be mandatory for all Realtors.
Not sure why this has to be mandatory, I also have a better insurance don’t need to be paying for 2 of them for no reason. This doesn’t make any sense.
I want to join a group that is willing to sue . This is unfair
I am a senior and get zero benefit
How do I sign up to help fight this in justice
I smell fraud someone is getting paid under the table stop the fraud
let us have a free vote
Does anyone know if the mandatory ORWP which is now part of the OREA dues tax deductible just like all other mandatory real estate fees we pay to keep our licence yearly.
WRAR exactly hit the point.
It makes no sense for OREA to mandate health insurance. I think it’s acting beyond their mandate and authority. If a group of members need it, there is no justification for everyone else to be forced to fund the program to make it affordable for that group.
Looking forward for this to be an optional program.
This is total nonsense! Members may have their own coverage which they prefer or through other family members. A total waste of time! How do we stop this, or at least have an opt in or out CHOICE?
Joe I think we need to voice concerns with our OMDREB reps, as they are the ones “voting” on this on June 20.
As the article notes Joe, the only way this will not happen is if you can convince t r r e b which can almost single-handedly (49% of the vote ), to vote against it. As they have chaired and spearheaded this initiative I would suggest your chances of success are somewhere between slim and none. Best of luck.
My understanding is that each board/association will be able to decide whether to opt in or not
It’s completely mandatory. Unless a board opts out of OREA
OREA is thrilled to provide this benefit! At our own cost! $660 added cost per year and if you don’t pay this cost you are out. So much for mental care of agents who don’t do well in current market conditions. This simply adds stress to the daily lives. Mandates in self employed industry is not acceptable!!!
Its not OREB please re reax
Totally agree with Orea personally I don’t have any coverage would be beneficial
It should be optional. It should not be mandatory because many members has the coverage from other sources.
Nobody ever needs this coverage until they need it!!
After 25 years in the business and participating in numerous Go Fund me pages and fundraisers for realtors in trouble, I am thrilled that we are going to treat being a Realtor like a real career and have some basic coverage. Good work OREA!
I am so pleased with this program. I only wished it had been in place years ago when I had a young family. I am now 72 and I am very happy about it. Has anybody priced a $50,000 life insurance plan when you are over 65?
who in their right mind gets life insurance in their 70’s ? Life insurance should be in bought when one has a young family.
This is a great idea and I am assuming this will kick in ABOVE any other plans one might have and it s cheap -about $50.00 per month -especially with $50,000 life insurance !I am a senior, senior, senior, and I have lots of my own insurance but my grandkids would welcome an extra $50,000 for their education or life starting kick! And a great chance to help those who do NOT have and cannot get/afford any coverage If I EVER retire can I take it with me??
No, you cannot take it “with you” . The moment you cease being an OREA member there is no more insurance. Of any kind. I don’t believe that there is anyone out there who would consider cancelling their private plan for this. This is probably the poorest plan I have ever seen. And I don’t do well with age discrimination.
Is that the amount of Life Insurance coverage under this proposed insurance plan?
My question , why so little time to implement this & being a mandatory plan.
Linda!
Let it be a choice!
If over 65 won’t you will receive a lot less than 50,000.
I think it’s good for myself being full time and the sole provider for my family. I can see a problem with all the part time agents who hold full time jobs with full benefits.
Of course they’ll complain.
It’s more about being forced to pay for coverage you don’t need. I am fortunate enough to have coverage through my partner so why would I need more?
It doesn’t cover anything. What is $750 annually for preconceptions, no dental ni vision overage?
This is just another money grab?
Why we are paying OREA fees for.?
OREA should be consulting agency,, and should look for the clients the same way we are doing to put food on the table for our families.
It is much easier for them to take portion of our income and get their fat cheques.
Please , cam enyone explain to me:
What do we need OREA for.
I will join any lawsuit that challenges this. We are independent contractors, forcing this on us is outrageous!
Anyone who wants health insurance can get it privately for cheeper. What a disaster.
I strongly believe that this will not hold up in a legal challenge. Read the FAQ’s on the OREA site. It’s so vague that you can read between the lines that this is “iffy” at best.
Bottom line: is it serving my needs? It should not be mandatory. To be fair to everyone there should be an option to opt out. Just like other employers, they have opt out choices.
Perhaps give choices of what coverage they want, if it’s mandatory.
How do we remove the board and Tania Artenosi immediately? Is it possible? Why do we need OREA?
Wholeheartedly agree!
They can’t force this on us. I already have a comprehensive policy
As a Realtor over 65, Orea’s benefits package wains somewhat after turning 65. I am single with no dependents. Life plus A D &D is mute.
I agree with Brenden, I am 67 and I also have a lung problem but still as active as younger agents. Forcing this upon anyone is wrong but it makes me wonder is this the way they are leading our Medical system to the private sector. “THIS IS WRONG” This is not a seat belt or car insurance. OREA did not come up with this! Who is truly behind this?
I love the idea of having insurance as an option but am not impressed that it’s mandatory. An easy solution would have been to provide a few options that agents or brokers can opt in to both for themselves, their families or their administration staff members. This brings value if it’s a choice. I have to question the reasoning behind this and who is getting paid on this deal. This amounts to a group policy with a $63M+ price tag attached to it. I can’t help but feel like we could reduce this price or offer more for our dollar in the way of coverage. Why the sudden push for this package? Is this someone getting kickback? How many quotes were provided? Where is this imaginary survey we all apparently filled out? I have lots of questions.
We are a husband and wife team so we will be forced to pay twice like it or not and for this amount we could get similar coverage on our own. We pay about $110 each for travel insurance for the year to put this in to perspective. $750 worth of prescriptions is a drop in the bucket, no dental coverage and really not much of anything to assist it’s members other than access to mental health services (not in person) that OHIP currently provides.
I am for an optional policy for those who wish to do so but they should be shopping rates a little more aggressively. Maybe those boards who are against it take a step back from OREA and no longer belong to a group that TREB controls. I’m sure if boards expressed that their members are no longer interested in being members of OREA it might get a bit of attention. Just my two cents
Hi Gene I replied to Lance Nielsen. Please read. I forget to mention to him that out of the 92000 agents there is probably close to 80 percent are part time and probably have a job and that the employer is probably paying for his benefits
Yes! this is just a money grabbing effort by OREA after losing the Education part.
WE are independent and we pay monthly and end of year fees if we dont make any sales.. I am on hard time because i must pay all these fees and since Covid I did not make a dime..
I cannot pay my TREBB dues because the combine all the invoices… This is bullying and not fair to the people who are struggling to stay in the Plan..
I will expose all the deceits i exprienced since joining ,… this is manuplation and causing Mental – illness …
This is tyranical and should be optionnal to members. For myself I already have a better health insurance policy with my husband I DON’T NEED HEALTH INSURANCE. Who has come up with this idea?? Very disturbing that it’s mandatory! What advsntages are there to Orea here, one has to wonder! Realtors can get health insurance, if they don’t it is their choice. I do not want to participate.
Stop forcing things on people. This wellness benefits should be optional and I certainly hope that someone start a lawsuit against OREB which I will join in a heart beat. We are indépendant contractors and WE need to decide if we want to participate in this money grab. OREB has no right to force such an expense on it’s member as it has nothing to do with day to day trading in Real Estate.
This is just selfish.. You pays all this money fo get certificate .. You pay for branding.. I am 70 plus and these are benefits for younger people.. so they are forcing us do do this at the same payment for younger and people who are making millions… They are forcing me a single woman to use my Pension or drop out of the market if you cant pay for these people..
when I started there was none of this from OREA because they were gett there money from Education..
We pay to OREAand CREA but I though we have an option … I am with CREA also but I pay brokerage fees and branding fees… I must pay money to my Brokerage if I dont and must pay for branding ….
I will join if there isa lawsuit
I think this is simply a move to push unproductive realtors out of the business and centralize the work to those that don’t actually need the insurance. Definitely it needs to be looked at deeper. Mandates seem to have a Orwellian tone these days.
I think we need more input from the members and before the boards vote on behalf of their members. Why rush it and why not do more survey and make a decision based on what the members want. Every board should have to do the survey and provide the results to OREA and their members. It is good idea to have benefits but making it mandatory is being rushed. WE need to involve our members in making these decisions especially when we say we are doing it for our members then let’s have the members have a say in these decisions. At MREB we are member focused and like to inform our members and involve them before we speak on their behalf in making such big decisions.
The only reason, as I see It, why OREA is forcing it on all members as mandatory thing without concidering that some, if not 50 % of members, have coverage through their partner or on thier own, is that someone is pocketing good money for the deal. Otherwise, why wouldn’t they consult 95,000 members? Why chose a ” select” group of people to discuss’ it? Please, provide a list of those who decided for all.
Also, what happened to “for less than a dollar a day” in thier previous article published here a week or so ago?
Since what time an independent contractor is forced into medical decision by the association which is getting paid by that contractor ??
Too many unanswered questions…
I do not have any medical coverage and have been a full time Realtor for 20 years. When doing my yearly budget, prescriptions are a large part of that, so for me I couldn’t be happier to have this new support, even at the extra annual cost.
I believe this is a great initiative and commend OREA for looking out for Realtors especially those that can’t afford benefits.
I do believe in freedom of choice and there should be an opt out. If that reduced the number of participants and therefore increased the cost slightly it is still a great price .
We are a 2 realtor family (husband and wife) so paying for it twice maybe will not make sense if the add on is cheaper , how will that be dealt with?
It is about time that Realtors have these incentives and benefits. For so long Realtors have had so many liabilities, this is a real good program for them. I am all for it. This program will attract more people to join the career and will secure the ones we have. Thank you for working on this.
Great if you need it, not so much if you don’t. Forcing it on every member is wrong for a variety of reasons. Maybe cost saving measures at OREA (perhaps something like reducing staff) and thus a reduction of member dues could offset the cost of the medical plan. Realtors pay dues to support national, provincial and local associations so there is a degree of overlap that contributes to the the cost of dues. Perhaps there are more cost saving measures that can be realized at the national and local levels to offset the medical plan costs. If they want to shove the medical plan down our throats in the guise of looking after our best interests, then look after our best interests by reducing the bloat.
You think there is a shortage of Realtors?? lol
Sounds like a dictatorship. Forced anything is wrong. For those who need it great, for those who don’t leave us alone. No choice means no rights and freedoms. Sounds like exactly what is going on in current politics. Wrong in so many ways.
So… drugs are capped at $750 and the yearly fee are $660? How is this a benefit?
Big Business, somebody from orea in the insurance board let us know.
OREA is showing it’s irrelevance and Realtors see it, one MLS system for the whole province. We do not work for OREA and they have a membership gratuitously because of individual real estate boards bylaws which can be changed. This is not a good idea by OREA especially the MANDATORY part.
$750/yr of drugs and $660/yr for membership. I’m instantly saving $90 dollars per year with this and the $660/yr becomes tax deductible as it’s mandatory. Seems like an obvious benefit.
and everyone 65 and older is getting their prescriptions paid through OHIP and are losing the majority of the “benefits” offered in this plan. Also, savings at tax time are marginal if one knows how those are calculated.
I dont take drugsand I am om commission, No commission I must use my Pension. I am single and i do not need this.. I should have a choice. If the spred this out maybe you can over look. this is more than the charges for TREBB.. All the supports are duplicated..
The combine so that you must pay it..
If I have to then there are repricutions, believe me.. I started June 1, 2018 and I am looking at all these charges.
This is a terrible decision. Im all for Insurance, if you want it. But Im also pro choice. If I choose to get insurance I can. I dont need insurance to do my job and believe that making anything mandatory goes against my ability to choose what is best for me and my family. Orea hasnt proven to me that there is a majority of agents that want this. Show me the results of the survey and the content of the questions. There seems to be lack of transparency and a rush to get this done.
The OREA survey was misleading with many questions “persupposing” you want the insurance. The obvious question was NOT asked on the survey anywhere. “Do you want this insurance, yes or no”.
OREA can’t prove anything as they did not ask the question or do proper consultation with members.
Would have also have been nice if they included a question like…
“Should this insurance be mandatory to ALL realtors YES or NO”
Please choose … So annoying…and these are the people looking out for us…??? **loud sigh**
I see that this can be a great benefit to some people, although since it really has nothing to do with trading in real estate I do have concerns about being forced by OREA to participate in a health/life insurance program simply to make it affordable to those who want it. Private Coverage is and has always been available to anyone who wants to enroll regardless of their workplace or profession, it’s not like this is the only avenue for coverage.
Glad this finally makes it into the public realm, albeit a bit late.
I did the survey and had excatly the same feedback as Sabine Nassar. Not oly that, it fails to recognize thatsome members are covered by spousal plans or even better private plans. This foists a second less than adequate option upon them.
One more terrible idea. I suspect given some of the board members on OREA who would likely have rubber-stamped this, their influence on TRREB will have TRREB’s support.
Getting so very tired of ORE’spower plays over the membership.
I think it’s a great idea. The group buying power makes the coverage far more affordable than doing it individually. Many people can’t afford coverage on their own, period. I think the costs in this industry should be higher anyway, let alone if the higher costs include added benefits. If you can’t afford the $660 annually, it may indicate that your time in real estate would be better spent elsewhere. Find one extra tenant to lease a property 😉
Yes , I am totally in favour.
It should have happened many years ago.
Haha. Somebody got greased
I want to know who in OREA is benefiting from making this mandatory. We need transparency and why OREA has any authority to do this. What is this insurance company offering as commission to OREA? Full disclosure is needed!
To my fellow realtors who have expressed that they are in favour of the program. It’s my guess that that they have not familiarized themselves with the “fine print”. The limitations are the lowest I have ever seen in a “private” health insurance plan. I.e. maximum $ 750 annually for drugs (my plan covers a million $). The fact that some benefits will be reduced by half when you turn 65 and another terminated when turning 70 (while paying the same premium). Premiums are only “guaranteed” for 2 years and after that, who knows. People who are concerned about their personal insurance can get much better products on the open market. This is not a “family” plan. It only covers the OREA member and none of their family members. What will they think of next that they want to force on us ?
Thanks Sabine. We need to read the fine print. Benefits gets reduced after 65 and 70. Also pre existing condition exclude you from critical care plan.
No thank you already have coverage
if you are not a full time realtor, or if you have another job, you dont get to vote
This is actually not correct. Who determines “full time realtor” anyway ? How would OREA know if I have another job or two. You may want to check on the OREA website what the voting process is. While I am extremely opposed to this but let’s be careful about posting incorrect information.
Members don’t vote. Only their Board delegates.
I think there should be an opt out option since both my wife and I have really good benefits and we are over 65. I don’t need more coverage and would never have to use it since our coverage is more extensive then what they are proposing. I would just be giving my money to them for nothing. They should delay this and do more research.
I am disgusted that this is mandatory and the reduction to 50% at age 65 is a disgrace especially since premiums will not be reduced accordingly. Private insurance has always been available and if any self employed person opts not to have it that is a choice. I am aware of affordability concerns but with all the mandatory dues we currently pay just to be allowed to sell real estate I don’t think this should be added to our costs. The coverage is far from adequate if you do need to use it so most people will need to keep whatever plan they currently have which just becomes an unnecessary added cost.
No thanks.
My wife and I are both Realtors
– so we pay twice
Family benefits ae of no use as my wife would be covered on her own
– so we pay twice.
We are both over 65
– so we loose out on most benefits
We already have full supplementary health insurance from a previous employer
– so we pay twice
I recall the OREA’s BIG 5 plan (for a purpose) a few yrs ago
This was not one of them
Mandatory makes the ‘pool’ of contributors as big as possible, but at a cost to those with other purchasing options (family plans thru spouse employer etc)
It becomes a joke (like the RECO E & EO insurance) that covers those who could never get E & EO ins and affords little real coverage for any member if their firm (with greater and a few registrants) falls on tough times and fails
June 20th is Tuesday — tell your Association on Monday!
Nothing wrong with it … except the mandatory part.
Hi Anon I just replied to Lance Nielsen read
I am totally against this ‘mandatory’ insurance. Private insurance is available to anyone who wants to purchase it. I am of an age which disqualifies me from participation, however, I will be forced to pay the premium. Totally wrong!! More discussion amongst members needs to happen before a vote is taken.
Wow you guys are turning into British Columbia. Our BC government is doing anything and everything it can to distroy this industry. Of course their decisions are always dealing with problems that don’t actually exist but more so to make themselves look good under the perception of doing something. I have been in the business for 43 years and got my own insurance privately when i started out. One disability policy was 75% return of premium the other 85% with no claims. At least I got most of my money back as I never made a claim even with back surguries and other things. Forcing things on people seems to be the new way in Canada. Our organizations seem to want to be like our governments. Force you into everything by people who are not Realtors but wanna be Bureaucrats.
I worked for 30 years and had coverage through my employer. There was no Opt in or opt out provision. It just was and I didn’t receive benefits for the first year. My yearly deduction for prescriptions was $20 as a single and $40 as a family. In later years the deductible was taken away but replaced with maximum dispensing fee caps and having to pay taxes on this benefit.
When we turn 65 to maintain the same level of coverage will cost $225/mth.
I welcome the OREA program as it will become the primary plan and any other coverage becomes the secondary plan. Also remember that our fees and dues are all deductible expenses against our income.
One never regrets paying the premiums for their house or car insurance especially when they are made while again when experiencing a loss.
I never once regret having medical insurance and I have seen doctors who have said to me “there is a really good medication for this issue but it is quite expensive” … my answer is never let me worry about that … my automatic response is “ I have really good insurance coverage” … I hate when doctors will NOT prescribe the best available medication because they assume an inability to pay out of pocket.
I support this initiative by OREA.
Medical insurance will not be deducted as a “business expense” but as medical expenses and the tax saving is marginal at best (all income related PED posted a good example on how it works). An employer has the right to have certain conditions in the employment contract and has the right to change this from time to time. We are NOT employees. Do you think that $ 750 will make a dent if you are concerned about getting the “best available medication” . Let’s also not forget that once you hit 65 OHIP basically pays for most of your prescriptions. I could go on but reading this thread I realize your opinion is by far the minority .
This is absolutely ridiculous. I have a coverage through my spouse where we are paying the premium and its much better than this. Why do I choose I inferior plan?? It MUST not be Mandatory. This is like a Dictatorship where we have to keep giving money in the name of Dues to all kinds of Boards who are sitting with Millions of Dollars in their account. I am completely against it.
TRREB is increasing their dues next year in the name of new technologies, now OREA want more money in the name of Benefits. They are thinking we have a machine to print money in this crazy real estate market.
They should voice their opinion against Interest Rate Hikes which is bringing whole Real Estate Industry down. They are looking at their own pockets rather than helping members.
Adding more fee’s to the already mandatory registrations fees at this time, in this market is irresponsible. Making it mandatory and not being able to choose is very unsettling.
The survey was open for 8 days. If you have a plan with another provider that is superior, why would you cancel it for a capped plan at $750 for a fee of $660.
this isn’t right and needs to be reviewed further
I think this is amazing! Hope it’s approved, and the same plan makes it’s way to Alberta! Good work!
No, no, no to mandatory insurance.
I find it absolutely disgraceful that the organization I have paid my dues to for over 25 years has the right to force me to sign onto this programme. And that you can stop me working. If you’re 70+ the attitude seems to be “ to hell with you lot” I already have coverage of health, travel etc. I refuse to accept this.
This is utterly disgraceful that OREA feels it has the right to force me to pay for something I do not want and can stop me working. For those 70* OREA’s attitude is “to hell with them”
There are many ways to get reasonable insurance etc if you look carefully. I refuse to vote for this and I hope many others will feel the same
OREA should never mandate something that has absolutely nothing to do with real estate.
I do not want this policy, so why should those that don’t want or need it be forced to pay for a lower cost for others.
We are ll self employed, so do not work for OREA. Yet they are threatening to terminate us if we don’t pay it.
Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
I am fully covered by my husband’s benefits, have travel and life insurance covered and am over 65. I have zero interest in this and do not feel that I should be forced to pay it. I am self employed and these decisions should be mine alone.
We are not children! We should have the option to opt in or opt out based on our personal needs – I do not support programs that mandated everyone pay for insurance to cover for a minority of members
This should have been voted on by all of the Members. All I have seen is a survey.
As seen in the comments here, some do not need it, others won’t really benefit from it, and who needs another hand reaching out to all Realtors for more fees.
I’d be concerned this would start to put into question our independent contractor status for tax purposes. Plus simply philosophically; we’re in this business because we want to be independent. You can’t properly serve clients if you aren’t fully financially secure, including self-insured. This proposal raises a(nother) big red flag over our industry.
What has happened to the democratic process? This should have been discussed openly with the membership.A survey should have been provided. I understand the need for this for some members but I personally am well covered by an insurance plan that I pay for. I have no need for more insurance and I strongly object to this insurance plan being forced on the membership. Some realtors are struggling with the economic conditions of today and I am certain that extra billing by Crea is not going to be well received. It seems to me that Crea has completely lost touch with the realtor members when they create a benefit that a lot of the membership does not want or may not need.
This is completely “BS” having an association force members to take benefit’s that they do not require is WRONG!!!
Many agents don’t need additional insurance or are will to pay what they need yearly or claim it on their income tax.
$750 of drug coverage a year is a Joke with the high price of drugs that is not going to cover you for much if your seriously sick with cancer or another illness.
No dental coverage lacks benefits and even if they gave $1000 a year good luck covering a family or serious dental work when cleanings can be over $200 a time.
If it will benefit some people that great so let them take the insurance and leave people you don’t require it alone. You are not our employer and wonder what legal recourse their will be.
This play calls the leadership at OREA into question. This is over a $60,000,000 dollar per year deal, being funded directly from the pockets of Ontario Realtors, with little to no consultation. This is not right. This cost will surely increase once it’s in the door.
This has nothing to do with the integrity of doing Real Estate.
The OREA survey sent one time to members was misleading in that many questions “presupposed” you want it. (Read up on NLP). Not once did it ask the obvious question, “ Do you want this insurance? Yes or no.” Nor did TREBB’s . Interestingly TREBB has not published the results of their survey.
There are many flaws with this. Some important issues are:
• At age 65 benefits are half but rate remains the same. At older ages the benefits are further reduced with no rate change. This forces older Realtors into subsidizing younger ones. NOT RIGHT! Further this could viewed as discrimination. I’m sure there is a lawyer somewhere that could pick up on this thread.
• The fact that it’s “mandatory” is significant, given it has nothing to do with practicing Real Estate.
• Little to no member consultation with a misleading survey is concerning. I’m certain many are not even aware of this. At my main board 63% do not know of this plan. To me this means not enough has been to to inform members and also implies OREA is not at all interested in member feedback.
This “special meeting” on June 20th for boards to vote, in my opinion, looks to be nothing more than for a smoke screen for OREA.
If TREBB is the mentioned “oligarch” in this matter that makes OREA leadership the dictatorship regime of personal health care. I feel there is more at play in this $60,000,000 per year deal than has been revealed. Likely the decision is already made.
I do not have trust in the leadership of this process.
I agree with you. We are independent contractors not employees and making this mandatory is illegal. When you are an employee the company pays all or most of the insurance, plus the insurance is paid monthly not yearly. Apparantley RECO has over $30 million in the bank, they should cover it. Next year they might come up with an idea that we have to get our car insurance through RECO and making it mandatory or else we would not be able to sell real estate. in other words your fired. Someone shall call the Labour Board to see if RECO can do that. Hard to believe that they are saying they are not making any money on a $60 million dollar deal. I will probably take legal action RECO for losing my license and not been able to work. There probably are labour lawyer that you only pay if you win.
That is ridiculous and what about if someone has already coverage through a spouse?
It should be a choice; not mandatory!
F You OREA. Who paid who to bring up this bad idea?
OREA is once again trying to justify its existence. Most of the Realtors in our brokerage either have insurance through their spouses or have made other arrangements. Myself for one will not pay this forced payment. Let each individual choose for themselves. I think its time for OREA to go the way of the Dodo bird.
The time for a optional member health benefit/insurance program is, and remains long overdue.
Having a mandatory program that penalizes individuals who receive diminishing benefits due to age and still have to pay full fee appears very much like age discrimination. Having members who are all from the same family each pay is also wrong.
In the age of transparency, it would be of interest to see a breakdown of the demographics per board as to the number of members who will pay full cost yet will be entitled to diminishing coverage.
Also, in the spirit of disclosure and transparency, it would be prudent for OREA to outline the tendering process of this program.
If a member is delinquent in submitting payment for annual dues to their board, they may be re-activated upon a fee or may not even be de-activated depending on their Board’s policy. If the same member is delinquent come January 1 what will their benefit status be?
This mandatory fee may be the tipping point for members remaining or entering our profession, (which may or may not be a good thing) but it certainly will have an impact on our members and may act as a barrier of entry or remaining to “the club” as it does not appear to have any sort of “grandfathering clause”.
Combined with CREA’s co-op agreement and this upcoming mandatory benefit expense along with an increase in Board fees, we may see an increase in RECO compliant brokerages that operate outside of the Three Party Agreement.
In certain markets there is already an increase in the number of transactions that are being facilitated by RECO compliant, non board members.
Sounds something like what our politicians do.
They don’t ask us if we want it…
They force it upon us
And what gives Orea the right to do this.
This is an Association that needs to be desolved.
They do nothing for the REALTORS
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Whoever negotiated this deal on behalf of the insurance carrier should train real estate salespeople in the art of negotiations for this deal was definitely won by those who stand to benefit the most from it, and it’s not the individual member. It’s like their Rogers deal which comes nowhere close to what I have privately negotiated every 2nd year for coverage, that also covers everyone in my household.
Those who see this as a plus because it’s a tax deduction haven’t really done the math on the medical expense tax credit.
First, the life insurance portion is non-deductible, so if that’s in line with TREEB’s premium the amount eligible for the medical deduction becomes $560.
Before medical expenses are eligible for a tax reduction, they’re reduced by the lesser of 3% of net income or $2,635 (2023, which jacked up 2022’s exclusion by a whopping $156). As the tax credit is 20.05% of the remainder, the maximum credit for that expense would be $114.80 which will only be realized if your income is either $0 or your medical expenses are already above $2,635/ year.
Seniors in Ontario are covered in Ontario for a significant number of benefits, which is obviously why OREA’s carrier drops most of their coverage while happily allowing their premiums to subsidize the rest. While insurance is a subsidized pool of funds, reputable employers and insurance carriers do not require the funding be borne on the backs of one demographic.
It is well known that a significant percentage of Realtors in Ontario are 55+.
The latest OREA’s member profile information I could find is from 2103 which showed that about 49% were above 55. This quote from CREA Cafe
“The results of a 2012 OREA Member Profile study revealed that 8 out of 10 REALTORS® in Ontario are over the age of 40. Also, in the next 10 years, 49 per cent of our members will be reaching the age of retirement.”
That’s right now. So if that stayed true, that means of the 96,000 Realtors in Ontario, 14,200 are soon to be subsidized by 76,800.
Moving forward with a new program is one thing… but shutting down debate and discussion and preventing members from speaking at an special meeting to express their views or questions is undemocratic and unbecoming of an organization who says they are trying to do right by members. It’s cowardly. Shame on the leadership and board of orea for taking this course or action. I hope my board votes in favour of direct membership in crea… get us out of this corrupt organization.
Interesting comments from PED. Not in OREA documentation is a tax analysis…interesting…did they indeed get that advice …no mention of CRA, there is a mention of Competition Counsel consultation which may not be the same thing as getting a competition opinion or approval. There are rules against tax avoidance….and putting a non or only partially deductable expenses inside an association dues structure might just be that ….tax avoidance.
OREA has seriously failed if those are true, and we do not know if they are not because why….OREA did not report the “facts” around these matters.
Shameful.
and everyone 65 and older is getting their prescriptions paid through OHIP and are losing the majority of the “benefits” offered in this plan. Also, savings at tax time are marginal if one knows how those are calculated.
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that today’s OREA email offers voluntary health and life insurance for their members ? It seems one hand doesn’t know what the other one is doing
Anyone interested in joining a class action law suit if this gets approved? They’ll never get away with it in todays day and age.
Kindly google the definition of “extortion”…I already have a plan that I am happy with and do not want another. To be “forced” in 2023 to do ANYTHING that has nothing to do with anyone else is absolutely asinine!
What a disgrace.
Orea as an organization is well past its prime… forcing a 660 (600% increase!) dollar increase in dues with almost no consultation and not letting members speak at THEIR meeting. Where do they get off? I’m embarrassed to say I am a member of this organization. Time for three way agreement and organized real estate to die…
This is not an advantageous plan for myself who has reached the 65 mark and receives very low costing prescriptions through OHIP. I do not feel that anyone 65 + should not have to comply to this mandatory fee since it isn’t necessary and way too expensive. Thank you.
I do not wish to participate in this plan first of all it limits the amount of coverage and products you get there are companies with 20 people and paying $50 a month which covers you 90% of drugs 90% off Dental and lots more this seems to be a money grab Someone is benefitting through this . I do not wish to participate in this plan..
I don’t think this fair. I have coverage by the Chamber of Commerce and pay 400 per month with better coverage. This is absolutely Ludicrous we are being forced into this by OREA.
No thank you already have coverage
I can’t believe this passed.
I can’t believe as independant contractors we are being forced to pay for “personal” benefits. We are self employed, why do these boards have control over us?
I can’t believe there are 95,000 “individuals” that hold an Ontario Real Estate Licence!!
(That’s a whole other topic! I refuse to refer to everyone with a real estate licence as being a professional “Realtor®” as many are not doing this as a full time career. Perhaps that issue should be addressed instead of forcing 95,000 of us to pay for benefits that perhaps the majority of us do not want/need).
This vote should have been made by the 95,000 individuals that will be PAYING for the benefits, not some random representative of each board. Who even are these people? I do absolutely agree that benefits are a great idea as an “option” for those who may not have benefits already. However had they surveyed everyone asking if they already have benefits or need/want them I am willing to bet this would NOT have passed.
I already have great benefits that are also mandatory through my spouses employer. We can’t opt out of those in lieu of these, even if we wanted to. So now my spouse and I will be forced to pay for two separate mandatory benefits packages? Absolutely ridiculous.
And for all those excited about these new benefits, perhaps you should thoroughly read through the details before you do a happy dance. To put it into perspective in terms of the $750 prescription budget. I use a prescribed nasal spray for severe allergies, one tiny teeny bottle per month which is $140.00/bottle. So the OREA package would only cover me for 5 bottles per year, no other prescriptions if I needed, nothing else and I would have to pay for the 7 other bottles remaining for the year PLUS $660/yr for the coverage they are forcing us to pay. Massage, Chiro, etc…have you been to any of these providers lately? You’ll get two visits covered! I already have 100% coverage, this will literally be a waste for me and I will not even need to use them.
This is the WORST benefits coverage I have ever heard of. Having 95,000 people forced to pay to keep the price low for the minority of people who want it is disgusting.
All of us who do not want/need the coverage will be helping the members who want it to pay for THEIR coverage costs.
Don’t forget, you happy dancers, this coverage does not include two of the most important things that people use-dental and vision. Can’t wait to hear what that ADD ON will cost you all.
There should be an opt out option. This is 2023. I have a good feeling by the time January 2024 comes around OREA-WHO, will be changing it’s tune. I just do not see how they will be able to legally force independant contractors into signing up for these type of things.
OREA….why are you even still in existence? It’s bad enough we throw $110/yr away for you. We do not need you. We should not have to be members of something that does nothing.
When enough of the 95,000 members speak up over the next 6 months, this plan is going to change.
AMEN!!!!
I smell a lawsuit on the horizon. How did this pass with 80% of the votes, yet the majority of the sentiment here is negative?
This was a sneaky deal. Never even knew that we would have to pay for his with no other options. Completely blindsided.
I have much better coverage with my plan yet now I am forced to subsidize others?
It doesn’t seem like this was well thought through and just jammed down our throats especially those over 65.
Where can we voice our opposition?
This is completely unacceptable. As a self employed and not on salary with the OREB, I don’t see how they can make this mandatory. I am already covered under my husband’s government health plan, which cover both health and dental. This wellness insurance that is imposed on realtors doesn’t even cover dental. I am absolutely outraged by this decision. All the surveys that OREB send out, why didn’t they send out a survey asking the opinion of all Ontario realtors before passing this mandatory expense on June 30th. We pay enough monthly and yearly fees. When is this going to STOP.
Why is nobody questioning why we need OREA? , they have served no purpose since RECO took mandatory
continuing education away from them.
They are sitting on a huge reserve fund which is ours as members, and apparently the ownership of our forms which is also our.
Let’s dump OREA
Some great comments here! I do applaud OREA “offering” insurance but how they can make it mandatory is beyond me. Boggles the mind…There’s a petition going on change.org…voice your vote and opinion there!
The last time I checked the charter of rights was still in effect. Realtors are indepentent contractors and Not Paid By OREA. If OREA is smart they should just DROP the word MANDATORY, and let people make up there own mind on whats best for them and thier family. THIS IS NOT CHINA
I am very upset by this. I do not need mandatory health insurance. It should be optional since some of us already have it. It’s ridiculous and should not be allowed to happen.
I do not want this insurance , It has Nothing to do with Real Estate business. I am 73 years old and they’ll take my money then I will get No benefit except subsidinzing someone else health care.
I cannot stress how strenuously I object,
It should be an option. If as OREA claims its so desperately needed, then they should have No Problem getting enough people to fund it who want it without forcing another fee on those that don’t .
If they take my money they had better give me full benefits or I willl sue them.
OREA are Extortionists.
They are forcing Mandatory Insurance Plan down our throats.
OREA is blatantly ignoring the membership’s voices, and the membership’s right to opt in OR out if desired. We MUST pay.
Even if we never use it, or we are already insured, those facts are not being considered, or reason enough in OREA’s plan.
We only have one option – and NO choice.
This is a scam.
They are stealing our money to satisfy their underhanded deal. This was all done in a rush – secretively. Real Estate Agents were not part of any of the discussions, OREA’s survey never asked members who already had insurance and would not be interested, instead they drafted this fraudulent survey, to get the answers THEY wanted to move ahead. Members were never given any options or exemptions.
Each member should choose their own destiny, and OREA should not have a voice. But instead, OREA has decided that if a member refuses to pay the extortionists a.k.a. OREA, members are threatened with immediate removal in participating in our own board or MLS, which will cause our clients tremendous costs and grief.
OREA is holding our licenses out for ransom.
Our governing body says RECO is the enforcer – NOT OREA.
I was of the belief, I needed to breach my professional conduct, breach my ethics, or break the law to be fined, suspended or my licensed revoked?
How did not agreeing to Health Insurance become a breach?
Is OREA telling us that OHIP is not enough?
My Province’s care is not enough?
OR
Did OREA get a sheriff’s badge? Who gave them the badge, and what authority do they now possess?
OREA has removed my rights!
OREA is the new bully on the block – they are forcing 96,000 realtor to pay into this scam – 1 insurer is going to get a nice chunk of change – is that not price fixing and removing fair competition?
OREA is not my employer – they do nothing for me!
They don’t pay me, or my co-workers.
I am an Independent contractor, and only I decide how to run my business.
I do all of the necessary steps to maintain my license & my Errors & Omission Insurance, non fail. I pay for my own car and the insurance, which is a necessary tool for my industry.
I remain ethical, professional and meet the pre-requisites for being a Realtor in the Province of Ontario. I’ve been a full time Real Estate Agent for 40 years, and over my decades in the industry, health insurance has never been a pre-requisite for any Realtor to maintain their license. Health insurance has nothing to do with the abiltiy to sell homes.
If OREA is not the new sheriff, then they have taken on the role of Guardianship or as the membership’s babysitter, yet they don’t have that legal authority.
Why IS OREA acting unfairly, fixing prices which is against the act, removing each member right to choose, manipulating the rules, silencing our voices, but flexing their muscles with threats and bully tactics?
Who is getting the big pay out – because by making this Insurance mandatory, sounds like a pay out for someone (s)!
OREA is conduting business like a mob boss towards licensed Independent Contractors.
If a licensed Realtor was ever to conduct themselves the way OREA is doing, RECO would fine us, suspend our license or revoke it completely, yet OREA continues to act unethically, unfairly, unprofessionally, disregarging the best interests of ALL registrants & their clients.
OREA knew or ought to have known that this decision in MANDATORY Health Insurance, demonstrates the lack of reasonable knowledge, skill, judgement and competence, when they decided for it’s registrants.
OREA knew or ought to have known, that the self satisfying survey conducted, produced inconclusive reports, and did not address the issues at hand.
OREA knew or ought to have known, negotiating a contract secretively, without FULL DISCLOSURE is invalid and unenforceable.
OREA knew or ought to have known, that when entering into a contract with a third party without my full knowledge or acknowledgement, understanding and full co-operation, would also be questionable in the courts.
This makes their contract voidable! They are not in a legal possition to hold our License hostage, until registrants pay the “ransom” with Health Insurance.
Hi
I have full time job and I have all benefits and coverage.
I don’t need double coverage.
This health insurance program is an OREA initiative. IT was conceived and developed without consulting all Realtors. OREA is owned by the Ontario Realtors, and is acting as if they are our employer. INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS DO NOT HAVE VOTING Rights like we do with RECO. Why NOT? I doubt that anyone who has ever tried to collect crotale health insurance and is in favor of this program has never dealt with an insurance company on this plan. 31 years ago I had a HEART ATTACK. I was employed by a government at the time so had health benefits. The insurer made 2 payments to me and then advised that benefits were suspende pending further info from my family doctor at which time they would re-evaluate my condition. They sent a very lengthy questionnaire to my md, who complained to me that he did not have the time to complete the very detailed questionnaire (abt 20 pages long! Fortunately my employer had a RN, who straightened the insurer out. 9THE GOVT WAS A MAJOR ClLIENT,: benefits were reinstated and in fact I returned to work over a period of 10 months WHICH THE NURSE dictated, over the objections of my employer. Who will be there to help the Realtor when he/she needs someone on their side. Callus Moore, a broker in Kitchener Waterloo advised on a Utube video that any board that did not support fee insurance program would e denied access to MLS. OREA seems to have forgotten that it is is Financed by Realtors & is thus owned by us! Time fior a review and audit of their obligations
Objection to MANDATORY !
It is ILLEGAL
Unacceptable !
Garbage coverage !
We want CHOICES !
Where we can voice our OPPOSITION ?
SOLUTION ?
I WILL SUPPORT TILL WE WIN !
Hi, are there any options? If I join a different board – MREB will I still have to pay the same insurance?
So here we are. OREA had a “special” meeting to fundamentally change their bylaws ( not sure how that works under the Not-for-Profit Corportation Act, still researching) so that they would be able to, without full diclosure to those monetarily affected, enter every individual Realtor in Ontario into a financial contract for personal health services. Exactly how is that possible? OREA is an association, not the employer and not a union. I wonder how this would hold up in small claims court if they threaten my livelihood because they entered me into a financial contact without my consent or signature? My trading name isn’t even my full name so they’ve entered an entity into a contract for personal services. Should be interesting.